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Thread: Ranger hill wreck

  1. #1
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    Ranger hill wreck

    There has been a bad wreck on Ranger hill. 12 vehicles involved. I 20 shut down.

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    Wow, not good.
    "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." - Albert Schweitzer

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    You can go to Txdot and see the wreck on the Eastland County cameras.

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    Does not look good from the traffic camera.


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    Last edited by aa6660; 12-19-2011 at 12:39 PM.

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    Westbound traffic was backed up to Tudor road when I was at Strawn exit about 15 minutes ago. Probably back to Thurber now.

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    Lake Country Sun is saying I-20 may be closed for the next 3-4 hours for cleanup.

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    I guess it's impossible to put service roads on each side of I-20 on the hill. Sure have been a lot of opportunities to use them if they were there.

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    What is the website that we can check all this out on?

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    Thank you

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    I'm hearing there's a wreck on 207 now. So much for trying to get around it to the north. Son came through that way just a bit ago and said people were driving like maniacs.

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    If 207 is between Ranger and Strawn - I don't doubt there was another wreck. People were driving like they were on the Interstate. Trucks were flying by and cars were passing each other. It was crazy on that road.
    When you get the chance to sit it out or dance......I hope you dance

  14. #14
    wreck on I20 between cisco and eastland? traffic at a standstill

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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyGirl View Post
    If 207 is between Ranger and Strawn - I don't doubt there was another wreck. People were driving like they were on the Interstate. Trucks were flying by and cars were passing each other. It was crazy on that road.
    Yep..there was a wreck..just one car in the ditch. Didn't seem cause much of a of problem.

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    We passed under the bridge coming into Eastland and Ih 20 is stilled blocked off going east. That was about 6:00 pm. Lots of traffic on Seaman going towards town.

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    We went out south of Lake Leon earlier and met a long line of cars going north towards Eastland. When we came back about 20 minutes later the traffic had quit.

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    I-20 is open

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    I was fortunate... It opened in time for me to head towards Eastland about 5:00 p.m. Was moving slow but moving. East side was still blocked. However, coming home I-20 had opened up going east too. A semi truck was at the scene loading up whatever had come out of the back of the truck that was on it's side next to the highway.

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    Any reports of injuries/deaths? Were any local people involved?

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    I heard that there were no fatalities. There were some in critical condition. Have not heard of any of them being local but didn't hear that they weren't either.

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    Speed kills, I'm thinking that there needs to be a slower speed limit from 1 mile west of the big hill to 1 mile east of it. Say 55mph? I would guess that the hill is the most dangerous rural spot on I20. It would be nice to have an access road along the south side and a third lane on the north, west bound, side. Prohibiting trucks in the passing lane. Slow and middle lanes for the big rigs.
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    I tend to agree with ya Spanky. Those rookie truckers are out of control and the cars unfamiliar with the hill are very dangerous. Both ways.
    Never a stranger in Ranger! and I DO NOT SUPPORT gay rights

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    you could make the speed limit 20 mph i ya wanted to but do you really think people are gonna obey it there they dont anywhere else
    If ya cant Dazzle them with Brilliance Baffle them with B.S.

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    Guess you could put the Ranger Interstate Highway Patrol out there. They might collect a little fine money.

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    The hill catches allot of people off guard. Once the 18 wheelers go off the top they don't always have enough braking power to slow down where the highway curves back to the right. It seems that is where a majority of the accidents happen on the east bound lanes. On the north bound lanes trucks that get slowed to 30 to 40 mph are being overtaken by trucks doing 50. They then change in to the passing lane with cars coming around the bend doing 70. It's pretty scarey for even those like me that know it's happening.
    It amazes me that with the number of accidents on that hill (two big ones with in a week) and the number of times that weather has caused I20 to be shut down there, that something hasn't ever been done to fix or alleviate that problem somewhat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    The hill catches allot of people off guard. Once the 18 wheelers go off the top they don't always have enough braking power to slow down where the highway curves back to the right. It seems that is where a majority of the accidents happen on the east bound lanes. On the north bound lanes trucks that get slowed to 30 to 40 mph are being overtaken by trucks doing 50. They then change in to the passing lane with cars coming around the bend doing 70. It's pretty scarey for even those like me that know it's happening.
    It amazes me that with the number of accidents on that hill (two big ones with in a week) and the number of times that weather has caused I20 to be shut down there, that something hasn't ever been done to fix or alleviate that problem somewhat.
    It would take a complete new down-hill East bound section to correct the safety issues or a rerouting of I-20. A major expenditure.

    That section was built in the early 50s, I don't believe there has been any improvement since then.
    I will not say how I know.

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    There has been some improvements. If you call the Jersey wall and the headlight shades along the top. Remember when those coming down the hill and headlights would shine right into the eyes of those going up the hill. Still, the most economical quick fix would be to slow the traffic down. It wouldn't fix it completely but it couldn't hurt.

    I remember in the early 80's driving a loaded water truck (well over weight and underpowered) up that hill on many occasions at about 12 to 15 mph, second gear, pedal to the metal, 2150 rpm hoping it wouldn't over heat or blow up. Man it took a long time to get to the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    There has been some improvements. If you call the Jersey wall and the headlight shades along the top. Remember when those coming down the hill and headlights would shine right into the eyes of those going up the hill. Still, the most economical quick fix would be to slow the traffic down. It wouldn't fix it completely but it couldn't hurt.

    I remember in the early 80's driving a loaded water truck (well over weight and underpowered) up that hill on many occasions at about 12 to 15 mph, second gear, pedal to the metal, 2150 rpm hoping it wouldn't over heat or blow up. Man it took a long time to get to the top.
    But you never had the thrill of running a dirt-compactor without brakes on the hill?
    AWE dude you have not live yet.

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    I can remember hearing Dad cussing & fuming if he got behind a truck on the old winding Ranger hill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    But you never had the thrill of running a dirt-compactor without brakes on the hill?
    AWE dude you have not live yet.
    Pfffhh. Amateurs! Just try it during an ice storm. On a unicycle!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    It would take a complete new down-hill East bound section to correct the safety issues or a rerouting of I-20. A major expenditure.

    That section was built in the early 50s, I don't believe there has been any improvement since then.
    I will not say how I know.
    C'mon Mingus! Say how you know. Please! We're all on the collective edge of our seats. (And when I use the word 'collective', I don't mean it in a commy sort of way. So brush the hair on the backs of your 'collective' necks back down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    C'mon Mingus! Say how you know. Please! We're all on the collective edge of our seats. (And when I use the word 'collective', I don't mean it in a commy sort of way. So brush the hair on the backs of your 'collective' necks back down.
    OK comrade it is this way.

    You need a gradual descent that you do not have unless you go to the old Wiles Canyon area.

    After watching the rebuilding of countless mountain grades & passes in California, Oregon, Washington & Colorado. They had to go down the side of Mountains in a long gradual descent.

    You need to lower the steep grade down on Ranger Hill, Some times I swear it is 8 % down grade at times. I only ran into that steep of grade in Castlegar, BC Canada.

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    It was my understanding the hill is a 6% grade. I thought to be considered Interstate ready that 6% was the max it could be.

    Nearly 30 years ago I went down that hill right after an ice storm in a school bus. Slid down right beside a semi truck and trailer that had his wheels locked. We made it down. I still don't know how I got back up the hill, it hadn't been sanded yet.

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    Because you, Pianoman, are a school bus drivin maniac! Whoo Hooo..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    Because you, Pianoman, are a school bus drivin maniac! Whoo Hooo..
    Maybe I became a maniac because I drove a school bus. LOL Driving a school bus will do strange things to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    It was my understanding the hill is a 6% grade. I thought to be considered Interstate ready that 6% was the max it could be.

    Nearly 30 years ago I went down that hill right after an ice storm in a school bus. Slid down right beside a semi truck and trailer that had his wheels locked. We made it down. I still don't know how I got back up the hill, it hadn't been sanded yet.
    I think the engineer was drunk when they shot the grade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    OK comrade it is this way.

    You need a gradual descent that you do not have unless you go to the old Wiles Canyon area.

    After watching the rebuilding of countless mountain grades & passes in California, Oregon, Washington & Colorado. They had to go down the side of Mountains in a long gradual descent.

    You need to lower the steep grade down on Ranger Hill, Some times I swear it is 8 % down grade at times. I only ran into that steep of grade in Castlegar, BC Canada.
    That's it? I kind of expected you to divulge the secret location of a long abandoned missile silo, or something along those lines.

    Or is that all you can tell us without having to kill us for knowing too much? If that's the case, I will be happy not to press it further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    That's it? I kind of expected you to divulge the secret location of a long abandoned missile silo, or something along those lines.

    Or is that all you can tell us without having to kill us for knowing too much? If that's the case, I will be happy not to press it further.
    Well you ask a foolish question and now get mad about the answer.
    Just like a typical confused mad liberal with low reasoning ability.

    If you are trying to make this old man look foolish, you need to just really stand back.
    I do a pretty good job on my own trying to reason with you. Thank you.

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    TV32 will be broadcasting at 6:00 p.m. today, Friday, from an I-20 wreck near Eastland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by june View Post
    TV32 will be broadcasting at 6:00 p.m. today, Friday, from an I-20 wreck near Eastland.
    8 minute's worth of notice? I may have missed it.

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    Maybe we could start a petition for some obamy stimulus money? HAHAHA. Man I crack myself up sometimes.

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    As usual, I wholeheartedly agree with Spankster. Slow down traffic. It is done at most mountain passes. That particular stretch is as steep and dangerous as many similar grades in Colorado.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    As usual, I wholeheartedly agree with Spankster. Slow down traffic. It is done at most mountain passes. That particular stretch is as steep and dangerous as many similar grades in Colorado.
    Pass a law that no-one would believe it applies to them. A typical liberal approach to kick the can on down the hill.
    It would take strict enforcement by the State to enforce the speed limit, like they do in the Western States. Or it would be mass murder by speeders.

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    Peace on earth
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    Pass a law that no-one would believe it applies to them. A typical liberal approach to kick the can on down the hill.
    It would take strict enforcement by the State to enforce the speed limit, like they do in the Western States. Or it would be mass murder by speeders.
    Kick the can down the hill? What on Earth does that mean? Who cares if people "believe" a limit applies to them? That's what tickets are for.

    I guess you're right, Mingo. Again. So typical of a lib to suggest something so bureaucratic, unenforcible and restrictive of your God given right to zip down a steep and winding road at any speed you so desire to zip at.

    How monumental it would be to set a 50 or 60 mph speed limit at that hill. Just think of the cost. The lives lost. The massive government regulation involved. But we did go to the moon! I think we could do this!

    How about letting Ranger annex that stretch and then it can enforce a lower limit, since you seem to have no faith in the Highway Patrol doing so. According to you Spinsters, Ranger seems to do a pretty darn good job of pegging speeders on I 20.

    How about polling law enforcement, the repair crews and the various emergency personnel that risk their lives every time that hill has a mishap, on their opinion of lowering the speed limit there? And we should include the opinions of families that have been affected by that stretch of road.

    This would be an ideal place to set up speed detection cameras that work along the same ideas that red light cameras do.

    Laws and regulations aren't always a bad thing, Mingo.

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    I have seen many places on Interstates where lower limits were/ are posted for safety reasons. This does need to happen here. Strawn Hill is too steep and on too much of a curve to not do something.

    The problem with annexing that land into Ranger city limits would be the other services that would have to go with it. Sewer, water, and so on.

    Put cameras up, with warning signs that they are in use, and they will get a ticket in the mail. Have it set up so that if the weather is bad (rain, ice or snow) that traffic fines double.

    Has to be some solution. On I-45 going south from Dallas at some point the interstate goes around a town and has a pretty tight turn to do so. There are big yellow signs with speed limits and warning that there is a sharp turn ahead.

    So seems to me more could be done to make this hill safer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    Kick the can down the hill? What on Earth does that mean? Who cares if people "believe" a limit applies to them? That's what tickets are for.

    I guess you're right, Mingo. Again. So typical of a lib to suggest something so bureaucratic, unenforcible and restrictive of your God given right to zip down a steep and winding road at any speed you so desire to zip at.

    How monumental it would be to set a 50 or 60 mph speed limit at that hill. Just think of the cost. The lives lost. The massive government regulation involved. But we did go to the moon! I think we could do this!

    How about letting Ranger annex that stretch and then it can enforce a lower limit, since you seem to have no faith in the Highway Patrol doing so. According to you Spinsters, Ranger seems to do a pretty darn good job of pegging speeders on I 20.

    How about polling law enforcement, the repair crews and the various emergency personnel that risk their lives every time that hill has a mishap, on their opinion of lowering the speed limit there? And we should include the opinions of families that have been affected by that stretch of road.

    This would be an ideal place to set up speed detection cameras that work along the same ideas that red light cameras do.

    Laws and regulations aren't always a bad thing, Mingo.
    I tried to give you some benefit of doubt on your stupidity but it is no use, you are missing something in your reasoning that is not normal.

    The hill has 1950 engineering this is 2012, any saftey improvements since then is just add-on.

    You put a slower speed limit on a strip of road that has never had one. You had damn well better have strict enforcement with teeth of any such laws. And not depend on cameras.

    You have taken the words out of my mouth when liberals pass a law you had better expect bad things.
    In my opinion you have not added anything constructive to this conversation but hot air.
    .

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    If people know there are cameras there that will and can take their picture if they are speeding then they will learn to slow down. And for the first few weeks there would need to be extra law enforcement there to get the point across. people know this hill form nearly all 48 states if they are a trucker. They will also find out soon enough that a new speed limit has been set and is being actively enforced.

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    I like the idea of a slower speed limit going down Ranger hill also. They do it for curves that are too sharp, construction areas, etc. Why not on that unique section of I-20 where you may not realize you are going too fast until you have started the decent and by then it could be too late. That curve you start into also keeps you from being able to see very far ahead, therefore, if an accident has happened, you may be right up on it before you find out there's a problem.

    Strict enforcement? Why is that needed? Spotty enforcement will do just like they do for those road construction areas. Every once in a while there's a highway patrol waiting for you as you exit one of those areas.

    Maybe Strawn could annex the downhill part of I-20 and grab them as they hit the bottom of the hill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    I tried to give you some benefit of doubt on your stupidity but it is no use, you are missing something in your reasoning that is not normal.

    The hill has 1950 engineering this is 2012, any saftey improvements since then is just add-on.

    You put a slower speed limit on a strip of road that has never had one. You had damn well better have strict enforcement with teeth of any such laws. And not depend on cameras.

    You have taken the words out of my mouth when liberals pass a law you had better expect bad things.
    In my opinion you have not added anything constructive to this conversation but hot air.
    .
    Okay. Let's approach this from a different angle. Just pretend that post #47 was written by the most stalwart neocon on this board. The writer has never voted Democrat and never intends to.

    Would you then be willing to concede you have not identified the first stretch of road in the entire United States that cannot have a lower, then have enforced a lower speed limit by way of police, highway patrol or electronic equipment?

    And please tell me why vehicles built in 2011 cannot drive down a hill at 50mph if the road on that hill was designed in 1950.

    Huggy love ya, babe.

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    In part of a answer, most Western mountain grades with a reputation of wrecks & runaway trucks.
    Have a strict enforcement of speed limits, that means Cops at the top & bottom of the grade.
    I have had several close calls in rear-in collisions from inexperienced drivers going to fast.
    While we were held at 25 mph they were going at 70, mainly from young Texas truck drivers.
    When the idiots became aware of their predicament it was to late.
    The North side of Grapevine Pass comes to mind, it has a 25 mph for trucks at the top.
    If you have a loaded trailer you had better damn well slow down to 25mph.

    Ranger Hill is not in Palo Pinto County, even if ticketed along the I-20 strip that is in Palo Pinto.

    There is a good chance the JP at Strawn Texas will throw out the violation, according to the DPS.
    This has been a long term problem between DPS & the JP.

    Wind sheer has always been a problem with high cube trailers running empty, with any change in the wind speed it can be dangerous at a high speed.
    Most long haul drivers are bored silly, the downhill grade is just recreation to them.

    And flip if you don't know by now you are hopeless.

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    Oh by the way the old timers called it Thurber hill.

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    Since the hill in question is in Eastland County, wouldn't an Eastland County JP handle it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    If people know there are cameras there that will and can take their picture if they are speeding then they will learn to slow down.
    Speed cameras are banned by law in Texas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post

    There is a good chance the JP at Strawn Texas will throw out the violation, according to the DPS.
    This has been a long term problem between DPS & the JP.
    I believe the city marshal's tickets would be handled by the new municipal judge, not the JP.

    Forgot that all of the hill is in Eastland Co. That Strawn exit is in Eastland Co. too. Eastland Co. sign sits on 16 just before you get to I-20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    Speed cameras are banned by law in Texas.
    Unfortunate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    Unfortunate!
    Not really. Research shows that they are ineffective at reducing accidents. The majority of the revenue generated goes to the camera provider, not to state or local government.

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    I have heard that Ranger Hill is really Strawn Hill. That Ranger Hill is further up the road where the exit for Ranger is.

  61. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    I have heard that Ranger Hill is really Strawn Hill. That Ranger Hill is further up the road where the exit for Ranger is.
    Well Strawn just has everything now, doesn't it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    Not really. Research shows that they are ineffective at reducing accidents. The majority of the revenue generated goes to the camera provider, not to state or local government.
    That's certainly two strikes against them. Perhaps the best thing would be to lower the speed limit, have the troopers enforce it more vigorously for a period of time until the word got around that the speed limits were reduced.

    I don't think they really have enough warning ahead of the hill though. Other places I have been have multiple flashing lights and signs indicating the danger ahead. But there isn't a lot of warning ahead of time about the down hill danger. Especially in slick weather. But then again, how many people would really pay attention to more signs and lights if they were there? So that idea may be nothing more than a waste of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    In part of a answer, most Western mountain grades with a reputation of wrecks & runaway trucks.
    Have a strict enforcement of speed limits, that means Cops at the top & bottom of the grade.
    I have had several close calls in rear-in collisions from inexperienced drivers going to fast.
    While we were held at 25 mph they were going at 70, mainly from young Texas truck drivers.
    When the idiots became aware of their predicament it was to late.
    The North side of Grapevine Pass comes to mind, it has a 25 mph for trucks at the top.
    If you have a loaded trailer you had better damn well slow down to 25mph.

    Ranger Hill is not in Palo Pinto County, even if ticketed along the I-20 strip that is in Palo Pinto.

    There is a good chance the JP at Strawn Texas will throw out the violation, according to the DPS.
    This has been a long term problem between DPS & the JP.

    Wind sheer has always been a problem with high cube trailers running empty, with any change in the wind speed it can be dangerous at a high speed.
    Most long haul drivers are bored silly, the downhill grade is just recreation to them.

    And flip if you don't know by now you are hopeless.
    I've traversed a few mountain passes in my 13.2 years, and I have yet to see one pass with "Cops at the top and bottom of the grade." Maybe this was the norm when Ranger Hill was Thurber Hill?

    Just how fast could a mule team and a wagon get up to on the downhill side of that road back then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    I've traversed a few mountain passes in my 13.2 years, and I have yet to see one pass with "Cops at the top and bottom of the grade." Maybe this was the norm when Ranger Hill was Thurber Hill?

    Just how fast could a mule team and a wagon get up to on the downhill side of that road back then?
    Now you are just being stupid!

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    Lowering the speed limit would only back log traffic. I can tell you now that even in Weatherford where the speed limit is 55 people go through there like it's still 70 me included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucy View Post
    Lowering the speed limit would only back log traffic. I can tell you now that even in Weatherford where the speed limit is 55 people go through there like it's still 70 me included.
    Unless you are unfortunate enough to get behind me. lol

    The natural speed limit for heavy trucks going uphill is about 50 and it doesn't back up westbound traffic.
    Last edited by Julie; 12-28-2011 at 11:38 AM.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    Unless you are unfortunate enough to get behind me. lol

    The natural speed limit for heavy trucks going uphill is about 50 and it doesn't back up westbound traffic.
    A big rule of thumb for 18 wheelers is never go down a mountain grade at a faster speed then you pulled it.
    On trucks the weight is the problem going down hill.
    The more momentum you have increases the braking distance even with engine brakes or exhaust brakes.
    On most Western mountain grades you do not see the end of the grade until the very last due to the length.
    That is the trouble with Ranger hill the drivers can see it is just a short drop to the end and get over confident.

    The only thing that would help the hill is major reconstruction, it is just outdated 60 year old highway engineering

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamb View Post
    Now you are just being stupid!
    Don't be to hard on him, Darwin has a way of culling the herd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucy View Post
    Lowering the speed limit would only back log traffic. I can tell you now that even in Weatherford where the speed limit is 55 people go through there like it's still 70 me included.
    How does every other 'lower limit' stretch throughout the US handle going from 70 to 60 or 55? Do you really see that road bottle-necking because the limit is lowered on that hill? That stretch has a daily road count of about 20,000 vehicles. How do roads with many times that number possibly bear it? This isn't Los Angeles.

    Not to mention there are lots o tunnels and bridges on comparable roads with much higher road counts. It is not uncommon to see those sites slow traffic down to 60 and even 50 mph. How on earth do they manage?

    And how about those bottlenecks like the one that inspired this thread? I'll take a 55 mph stretch of I 20 any day.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamb View Post
    Now you are just being stupid!
    I'm just inquiring into Mingo's reasoning. It ain't easy!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    I'm just inquiring into Mingo's reasoning. It ain't easy!
    Well, first you need to be smarter.
    You just don't have it yet.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    I have heard that Ranger Hill is really Strawn Hill. That Ranger Hill is further up the road where the exit for Ranger is.
    I just call it the Big Hill, cause I live on Ranger Hill and it ain't where the Big Hill is and I don't have to argue who's hill it really is. Wait... oh never mind....


    And I'm in favor of slowing them down. I see way too many fire trucks, rescue trucks, police cars and ambulances heading to the big hill. I'll take a little traffic back log.
    Last edited by Spanky; 12-28-2011 at 06:09 PM.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    How does every other 'lower limit' stretch throughout the US handle going from 70 to 60 or 55? Do you really see that road bottle-necking because the limit is lowered on that hill? That stretch has a daily road count of about 20,000 vehicles. How do roads with many times that number possibly bear it? This isn't Los Angeles.

    Not to mention there are lots o tunnels and bridges on comparable roads with much higher road counts. It is not uncommon to see those sites slow traffic down to 60 and even 50 mph. How on earth do they manage?

    And how about those bottlenecks like the one that inspired this thread? I'll take a 55 mph stretch of I 20 any day.
    There are times I get behind a truck going 40 to 50 up that hill with another truck trying to pass going the same speed. Yes, I have seen that hill become a bottle neck many times.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucy View Post
    There are times I get behind a truck going 40 to 50 up that hill with another truck trying to pass going the same speed. Yes, I have seen that hill become a bottle neck many times.
    And such congestion could set your estimated time of arrival off 1, 2 or even 3 whole minutes! Oh, the humanity!

    And who is calling for the speed limit to be lowered on the uphill side, anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    Well, first you need to be smarter.
    You just don't have it yet.
    That's why I am so inquisitive! I long for the day 'grasshopper' can snatch the Obama head dollar out of your hand!

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    And such congestion could set your estimated time of arrival off 1, 2 or even 3 whole minutes! Oh, the humanity!

    And who is calling for the speed limit to be lowered on the uphill side, anyway?
    No one was... I was using the uphill as a comparison of what traffic would be like going down hill if trucks were only traffic were traveling about 50 mph. The trucks do that going uphill now. There isn't a bottle neck (other than the one or two vehicles who occasionally get caught behind the passing truck for probably 30 secs to a minute tops), going west on I-20 up Ranger Hill unless there is ice or a wreck to cause some problems. IMO, it would be the same if you put a 50 mph speed limit on the downhill side.

  77. #77
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    Color me confused, but I was responding to 'lucy' post #73, after she responded to my post #69. If she was using the term 'bottleneck' in reference to a post of yours, I was blissfully ignorant! Mingo will back me up on that.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    Color me confused, but I was responding to 'lucy' post #73, after she responded to my post #69. If she was using the term 'bottleneck' in reference to a post of yours, I was blissfully ignorant! Mingo will back me up on that.
    No you're not confused... or maybe you are. I seem to have spoke out of turn. I was thinking that Lucy's discussion of being bottle necked going uphill was after my comment I made in post #66. I was thinking she was explaining that even though I made the comment there isn't a bottle neck uphill although trucks are by nature going 50 mph on that side now, she made her comment about getting bottle necked going uphill. I see now she was responding to you. I'll bow out now. Carry on.
    Last edited by Julie; 12-28-2011 at 07:54 PM.

  79. #79
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    Construct runaway truck ramps.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Construct runaway truck ramps.
    How would that work with that curve?

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    The same way that overpasses do... build the runaway ramp up, over, and across the WB lane using concrete pillars instead of the fill material in the photo below.


  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    The same way that overpasses do... build the runaway ramp up, over, and across the WB lane using concrete pillars instead of the fill material in the photo below.

    Comparing the expected cost of runaway ramps to to new signs that say '55' instead of '70', this cost conscious Dem opts for signs.

  83. #83
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    I'm thinking that the biggest problem with trucks on Ranger Hill is the road conditions. The wrecks seem to happen most of the time when the hill is icy or wet. I wouldn't think those ramps would be much help in that situation. This isn't usually just about going too fast and not being able to brake.. it's about losing control and sliding... which would have less chance of happening if they were going down hill at a slower speed to start with. I could be totally off base with this since I'm not a truck driver or an engineer.

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    But, the runaway ramps work, save lives and are "shovel ready" options. You better turn in your card comrade.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    Comparing the expected cost of runaway ramps to to new signs that say '55' instead of '70', this cost conscious Dem opts for signs.
    Typical lip service by a uninterested demo-rat for a pressing problem.

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    If you look at the picture the ramps have the ability to kind of straighten out the curve allowing the vehicle to gain control while slowing the forward speed.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    I'm thinking that the biggest problem with trucks on Ranger Hill is the road conditions. The wrecks seem to happen most of the time when the hill is icy or wet. I wouldn't think those ramps would be much help in that situation. This isn't usually just about going too fast and not being able to brake.. it's about losing control and sliding... which would have less chance of happening if they were going down hill at a slower speed to start with. I could be totally off base with this since I'm not a truck driver or an engineer.
    You are right about road conditions, in trucks like smaller vehicle's you lose steering control in slides. You do not want storm water draining the same way the traffic is flowing.
    Especially on a mountain down grade, no matter what they may claim the hill is more then 6% down grade.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    Comparing the expected cost of runaway ramps to to new signs that say '55' instead of '70', this cost conscious Dem opts for signs.
    I ain't a democrat, but I agree lowering the speed limit is a lot simpler / cheaper solution. The runaway ramps are usually reserved for the extremely long inclines. I don't think it would be prudent to do this compared to what lowering the speed limit would cost. Does anyone know how to find out what the accident rate for the hill was when the speed limit was 55mph? Was it any lower then, or about the same?

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    You are right about road conditions, in trucks like smaller vehicle's you lose steering control in slides. You do not want storm water draining the same way the traffic is flowing.
    Especially on a mountain down grade, no matter what they may claim the hill is more then 6% down grade.
    So you actually measured the grade?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    So you actually measured the grade?
    No, but I have been on 8% down grade in BC Canada & it is comparable to Ranger hill.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    No, but I have been on 8% down grade in BC Canada & it is comparable to Ranger hill.
    I see.

  92. #92
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    Just out of curiosity, what should a typical runaway ramp that would go up and over the westbound lanes of interstate set the taxpayers of Texas and indeed the entire US back? Any qualified guestimators out there?

  93. #93
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    My guesstimate is that it would save three or four lives per year. Translate that into dollars.

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    The amount of work and money to build a ramp would go a long way to straightening the curve some. On this particular hill I just don't see the viability of building a runaway ramp. Slowing the traffic down makes much more sense.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    The amount of work and money to build a ramp would go a long way to straightening the curve some. On this particular hill I just don't see the viability of building a runaway ramp. Slowing the traffic down makes much more sense.
    Although it seems to make sense. Are there any spots along the interstate where the speed limit slows for any other reason than construction or because you are entering a densely populated area? If you are talking 55 mph... is there any place along the interstate (other than construction areas) where the speed limit is that slow? Even inside the heavy populated areas I think it only slows to 60.

  96. #96
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    Move the caution signs about 200 yards up the road with lower speed limits
    Put some hard headed troopers out on the hill with radar before & after with a pay as you go judge.
    And you may have something, the State would make money plus the drivers would be alive.

  97. #97
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    Though it's not an interstate hwy, Hwy 175 that goes by Kaufman makes some tight turns and the speed limit there drops. There are some BIG yellow signs and lots of lights flashing to warn drivers of the danger and to slow down. This is just one example.

    I'm not sure how a runaway ramp could be constructed on the turn of the hill and made to cross over the on coming traffic. I would think it would be about as simple to straighten the down hill curve some instead of a runaway ramp. But I'm no engineer.
    Last edited by pianoman; 12-30-2011 at 09:12 PM.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    My guesstimate is that it would save three or four lives per year. Translate that into dollars.
    That's the same rationale I think of in the fight for nationalized health care.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    Although it seems to make sense. Are there any spots along the interstate where the speed limit slows for any other reason than construction or because you are entering a densely populated area? If you are talking 55 mph... is there any place along the interstate (other than construction areas) where the speed limit is that slow? Even inside the heavy populated areas I think it only slows to 60.
    The Eisenhower tunnel on I 70 west of Denver has a normal limit of 50 mph. It limits truck traffic and when allowed, they may go through as slowly as 35 mph.

    Many bridges through the west and south also have reduced limits on a permanent basis.

    A stretch of I 95 in New Jersey is 55 mph, as is all of I 95 through Pennsylvania. And these limits don't seem to impede traffic.

    Traffic counts in the northeast are far greater than that of Ranger hill.

    Also, many cities have toll roads with stations that still make some or all traffic stop to pay. Often these roadways have huge traffic counts. Houston is an example.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipocrat View Post
    That's the same rationale I think of in the fight for nationalized health care.
    I know... wrong thread... but maybe I can sway you from your misguided beliefs...

    Right now, in the U.S., there are 47 million people without health insurance. And right now, patients have to wait several days or several weeks to get in to see their doctor. And hospitals have to wait for a bed to "open up" so that another patient can be admitted. In other words, we have finite professional resources in the medical field, and their caseload is getting worse by the hour.

    So, all of a sudden, we provide 47 million more people with health insurance and add them to the doctors' caseloads, and add them to the waiting list for hospital admission. What is going to happen to the quality of care? You and I both know that it will decrease because the doctors will be seeing more patients and will have less time to spend with each of them.
    We both know that the increased caseload will increase the probability of mistakes being made, leading to more fatalities.

    Yes, more people will have access to a debilitated health care system. What is the advantage? I have long advocated opening up military hospitals to civilians and training military personnel in medical services so that more professionals would be available to handle the increased caseload. Simply providing people with health insurance does not solve our health care problems in this country. It only makes it worse.

    Once the infrastructure is in place (more doctors, more nurses, more medical facilities), then I certainly would be in favor of making those services available to everyone. Socialized (nationalized) medicine, at this point in time, and under the present circumstances, would overwhelm our medical capabilities.

    Agree or disagree?

    And now, back to the OTHER wrecks!

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