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Miss Mally
06-24-2004, 11:06 PM
Joseph assumed the role of Chief upon the death of his father in 1871. He inherited a situation of almost impossible complexity. In 1854 the Nez Perce bands had unwillingly signed a treaty with the US in an effort to protect their homelands. There is some question as to whether Josephs father actually signed this treaty, but it is clear that he was radically oppsed to the idea. Gold was discovered in 1860 and almost over night entire settlements had appeared on Nez perce land in direct violation of this treaty. The US had then pressured the perce to sign another treaty cutting the size of thier land even further In an effort to keep his land council was called and instructed the settlers to leave. Eventually a Presdential decree supported hsi positon but within a year the Commioner of Indian affairs reversed this decree without informing Joseph. Joseph took his people along with other non treaty Indians on the famous thousand mile flight through the rugged country of Oregon, Idaho, and Montana, in an attempt to get to Canada where they could live in peace. The Perce never looked upon their exodus as a fight. Indeed they fought only when it was necessary to facillitate their flight and tp protect their elderly and children. Joseph endeavored to keep the tempers of his warriors under control, and even helped white settlers he encounterd along the way. It was Spaulding who when Govenor Isaac Stevens of the washington territory who came to council to get Josephs father to sign the treaty that urged him to sign the treaty. Which he refused.

You forgot to mention the Whitman massacres...or any of the Indian raids for that matter. I view Chief Joseph as no greater man...and maybe less so then Quanna Parker. Chief Joseph allowed himself to be praised for what was more likely his younger brothers great military skill in manuvering. That don't impress me much.

BigGunz
06-24-2004, 11:19 PM
no need to mention them...they occured in 1847 The Cheif Joseph im talking about was the Son who I stated earlier didnt take over as chief until the death of his father in 1871. 24 yrs later after Whitman. i think i will not respond anymore to any of this thread anyways. I can handle being told that for 26 yrs I read the wrong bible and have been wrong in reading it. I wont bother on this one either to be eventually ridiculed as to my heritage. Because im seeing a trend here that looks an awful lot like im going to be made out to be nothing more than animal, savage and heathen becuase I belive in God and his word..and sometimes I try to learn and ask questions only to be sentenced to a clause of stupidity. I just find that I enjoy the word of God and I enjoy history of my heritage and feel sometimes they simple things are in coalition with alot of modern things and Christian ways . But so be it...its not that im getting on the porch...I just wont be ridiculed !

Girlie
06-24-2004, 11:24 PM
biggunz, are you Indian? I am Choctaw. I'm just wondering. My Grandmother is my only living source of my heritage, and I don't get to spend much time with her at all. Once a year maybe ....

Miss Mally
06-24-2004, 11:45 PM
no need to mention them...they occured in 1847 The Cheif Joseph im talking about was the Son who I stated earlier didnt take over as chief until the death of his father in 1871. 24 yrs later after Whitman. i think i will not respond anymore to any of this thread anyways. I can handle being told that for 26 yrs I read the wrong bible and have been wrong in reading it. I wont bother on this one either to be eventually ridiculed as to my heritage. Because im seeing a trend here that looks an awful lot like im going to be made out to be nothing more than animal, savage and heathen becuase I belive in God and his word..and sometimes I try to learn and ask questions only to be sentenced to a clause of stupidity. I just find that I enjoy the word of God and I enjoy history of my heritage and feel sometimes they simple things are in coalition with alot of modern things and Christian ways . But so be it...its not that im getting on the porch...I just wont be ridiculed !

I am not ridiculing you. I don't have to think that Chief Joseph was the best thing since sliced bread....just as you don't have to think that My Cousin Andrew Jackson did the best he could in making this nation strong...even though it ment moving the Indians.

I never said you should not use your Living Bible either...just that I prefer a literal translation vs a paraphrased version. You are being a tad touche here. Is disagreeing with you ridiculing you? Do I have to be impressed with Chief Joseph just because you are?

I have Chickasaw in my heritage. As well as being a decendant of Jessie Parker...one of those who was a representative during the Texas Revolution at Washington on the Brazos. He is my connection to Quannah Parker (distant cousin...I am not a direct decendant). And while I feel both the Indian and the White men were both wrong...I do believe with my whole heart in Manifest Destiny...as well as survival of the fittest. This is no way ment as ridicul towards you. I had no idea you were kin to Chief Joseph...so none was directed at you I assure you.

BigGunz
06-25-2004, 06:59 AM
no need to mention them...they occured in 1847 The Cheif Joseph im talking about was the Son who I stated earlier didnt take over as chief until the death of his father in 1871. 24 yrs later after Whitman. i think i will not respond anymore to any of this thread anyways. I can handle being told that for 26 yrs I read the wrong bible and have been wrong in reading it. I wont bother on this one either to be eventually ridiculed as to my heritage. Because im seeing a trend here that looks an awful lot like im going to be made out to be nothing more than animal, savage and heathen becuase I belive in God and his word..and sometimes I try to learn and ask questions only to be sentenced to a clause of stupidity. I just find that I enjoy the word of God and I enjoy history of my heritage and feel sometimes they simple things are in coalition with alot of modern things and Christian ways . But so be it...its not that im getting on the porch...I just wont be ridiculed !

I am not ridiculing you. I don't have to think that Chief Joseph was the best thing since sliced bread....just as you don't have to think that My Cousin Andrew Jackson did the best he could in making this nation strong...even though it ment moving the Indians.

I never said you should not use your Living Bible either...just that I prefer a literal translation vs a paraphrased version. You are being a tad touche here. Is disagreeing with you ridiculing you? Do I have to be impressed with Chief Joseph just because you are?

I have Chickasaw in my heritage. As well as being a decendant of Jessie Parker...one of those who was a representative during the Texas Revolution at Washington on the Brazos. He is my connection to Quannah Parker (distant cousin...I am not a direct decendant). And while I feel both the Indian and the White men were both wrong...I do believe with my whole heart in Manifest Destiny...as well as survival of the fittest. This is no way ment as ridicul towards you. I had no idea you were kin to Chief Joseph...so none was directed at you I assure you.

Yes they were both wrong...I like Andrew Jackson myself...and Joseph was no saint either and definelty not the greatest thing since sliced bread.....lol...I just admire his wisdom is all doesnt mean I agree with it just find it very down to earth. Now Chief Seattle was one I didnt agree with at all when he attacked Christianity...he was smart and at times did make great sense but not when it came to Christianity. Chief Red Jacket...I havent decided on yet.....lol

RogueEconomist
06-25-2004, 06:55 PM
Chief Joseph was one of the greatest military minds of all time . He killed
9 soilders for every brave he lost. He almost escaped with his people to Canada and freedom but they stopped to rest only a few miles from the boarder.

Factoid Its est that 65,000,000 indians were killed in the conquest of North America. A Indian friend of mine told me once that Columbus discovering America was like a thief discovering a Color TV in my living room. Intresting prospective dont you think.

Miss Mally
06-25-2004, 07:04 PM
Truth be known...Chief Joseph probably wasn't the military mind behind the retreat...His brother was. But his brother died and because Chief Joseph stayed in camp with the women and children...he was one of the few survivors and given credit for the retreat.

None of the Indians that were in the US when Columbus came were indiginous to the Areas...they came in and pushed others off this land first.

lol...we can't see eye to eye on everything you know!!! hahahahahahaha

Pond
06-26-2004, 07:55 PM
Thanks for the history lesson...I always enjoyed Girlie talking about her Grandmother or was it Great Grandmother ??? There is always so much to learn.... I could live in the past, for it is all interesting.... :)

Girlie
06-26-2004, 08:50 PM
Thanks for the history lesson...I always enjoyed Girlie talking about her Grandmother or was it Great Grandmother ??? There is always so much to learn.... I could live in the past, for it is all interesting.... :)

It is my Grandmother Pond. She is almost 90 years old now and is the only surviving member of her immediate family. She lost her oldest sister a year ago. She speaks Choctaw still, lives on the reservation in Oklahoma where she was raised (with her five sisters) by her aunt after their father murdered their mother. My Grandmother sings in a group with about 8 or 9 other Choctaw women .... I've never asked my Grandparents to leave me anything after their deaths, however, I have always wanted my Grandmother's Choctaw Bible.

And yeah, I could just go on for days .... not much time left with her in all reality and I am so far away from her that I don't get to see her but about once a year.

Being out on her land is like living in the past. She can tell so very many stories about everything out there. It's so quiet and peaceful, back off any of the main roads by several miles ... horses everywhere. Last year my uncle finally tore down the old barn that was my great grandfathers before he (great grandfather) went to prison.

Miss Mally
06-26-2004, 09:28 PM
What part of Oklahoma Girlie? We live right outside of Elmore City for three years when I was a kid...and my Grandparents owned land outside of Wilson, Oklahoma. I went to Oklahoma every summer to visit with them.

Girlie
06-26-2004, 09:53 PM
She lives near Antlers ... little place called Moyers, southeastern Oklahoma. I have visited the all girl Choctaw school she attended when she was younger.

That place is very rich with history!

Miss Mally
06-26-2004, 09:56 PM
That is really really neat. My Great Grandfather had family in Oklahoma on the reservation...but he would not go visit them. He denied his mother's heritage completely. Grandma said they were not allowed to ask questions or talk about it when she was growing up.

Girlie
06-26-2004, 10:00 PM
I think it is so very interesting to just be standing on that land. The trees are so tall and beautiful. It's God's country :)

Miss Mally
06-26-2004, 10:09 PM
some of my fondest childhood memories are in Oklahoma. An Indian neighbor to my Grandparents (my Grandparents on my mom's side...not the one that had Indian heritage) taught my paw paw how to find Murel (sp) mushrooms and to fry them....and so we would go mushroom hunting under the oak trees and then have a big fry that night. I loved it....umm umm good.

Never seen those kind of mushrooms here in Texas.

Girlie
06-26-2004, 10:14 PM
Some of my fondest memories are visiting my Grandmother and Grandfather while they lived in Texas ... Sherman ... for many many years.

My Grandfather was Spanish/Apache Indian. You know they say Apaches had an aggressive attitude/personality. They were right! lol

Grandpa used to call me his "little red tail" .... Never understood that until I learned of my heritage.

On that side of the family, my dad, my sister, and I are the only ones that do not speak Spanish or Choctaw. Sometimes I feel like an outcast, hahaha.

My uncle now lives in the house that my grandparents lived in (sherman) for many many years.

Miss Mally
06-26-2004, 10:17 PM
me hubby and me have fond memories of Sherman too. We bought our first house there. That was the house that love bought. We didn't have a dime...and God showed us that house.

I had been house hunting for weeks...and finally took Hubby to see one. We couldn't afford it he told me. So all the way from Sherman back to Mckinney...I was quiet (hubby knew something was up...I ain't never quiet that long unless I am praying). I prayed all the way home. The next morning I went back to hunting...and while in a real estate agents office...a man walked in wanting to put a house up on the market. I had been looking for a small farm house fixer upper on a few acres. That was not to be found I had been told by the real estate agents...and certainly not at the price we could afford. This man had exactly what I had discribed...and he took my offer.

Hubby didn't believe we could buy a house...thought I was day dreaming and chasing butterflies.

God answers prayers.

Gearldean
06-26-2004, 10:25 PM
I think it is so very interesting to just be standing on that land. The trees are so tall and beautiful. It's God's country :)
No, Texas is God's Country!

Miss Mally
06-26-2004, 10:47 PM
I think it is so very interesting to just be standing on that land. The trees are so tall and beautiful. It's God's country :)
No, Texas is God's Country!

You go Gd!!!

Girlie
06-26-2004, 10:53 PM
I agree that Texas is God's country .... but the only thing in Texas I've seen that's prettier than that land in Oklahoma is East Texas!

Pond
06-26-2004, 10:53 PM
I think it is so very interesting to just be standing on that land. The trees are so tall and beautiful. It's God's country :)
No, Texas is God's Country!

Here I say GOD loves us all and you come along and say he just loves Texans...

Girlie
06-26-2004, 10:54 PM
I think it is so very interesting to just be standing on that land. The trees are so tall and beautiful. It's God's country :)
No, Texas is God's Country!

Here I say GOD loves us all and you come along and say he just loves Texans...

hahahahahahahaha, you go Pond !!!! LOL

Miss Mally
06-26-2004, 10:57 PM
I think it is so very interesting to just be standing on that land. The trees are so tall and beautiful. It's God's country :)
No, Texas is God's Country!

Here I say GOD loves us all and you come along and say he just loves Texans...

ROFLOL

RogueEconomist
06-26-2004, 11:00 PM
Truth be known...Chief Joseph probably wasn't the military mind behind the retreat...His brother was. But his brother died and because Chief Joseph stayed in camp with the women and children...he was one of the few survivors and given credit for the retreat.

None of the Indians that were in the US when Columbus came were indiginous to the Areas...they came in and pushed others off this land first.

lol...we can't see eye to eye on everything you know!!! hahahahahahaha

Then we killed 65,000,000 of them.

I will settle with agreeing on the important stuff- scripture

Myself being rather pompus and pig headed and knowing almost everything :D I will be sure to let you know when I think your wrong and I suspect you will do the same LOL

Miss Mally
06-26-2004, 11:06 PM
Truth be known...Chief Joseph probably wasn't the military mind behind the retreat...His brother was. But his brother died and because Chief Joseph stayed in camp with the women and children...he was one of the few survivors and given credit for the retreat.

None of the Indians that were in the US when Columbus came were indiginous to the Areas...they came in and pushed others off this land first.

lol...we can't see eye to eye on everything you know!!! hahahahahahaha

Then we killed 65,000,000 of them.

I will settle with agreeing on the important stuff- scripture

Myself being rather pompus and pig headed and knowing almost everything :D I will be sure to let you know when I think your wrong and I suspect you will do the same LOL

And how many of our own did we kill in just four years of civil war? Man is deadly.

pompus and pig headed...hahahahahahha....I thought I was the only one that rated those names....you might check in with the dictator...and see if she will truely let you take on those titles. lol

Gearldean
06-26-2004, 11:46 PM
And how many of our own did we kill in just four years of civil war? Man is deadly.

pompus and pig headed...hahahahahahha....I thought I was the only one that rated those names....you might check in with the dictator...and see if she will truely let you take on those titles. lol
Yall can share the names since you're BOTH pompous and pig-headed! Or, I spose you could pick one or the other.

RogueEconomist
06-27-2004, 12:09 AM
I will take pig-headed sence I am A University Of Arkansas grad. I got the oink thing down to a science 8) PIGS RULE !!! oink oink LOL


If you agree with us or not , neither myself of MIss Mally are luke warm about anything, we seldom even agree but you know where we stand :lol:

Gearldean
06-27-2004, 07:27 AM
I think it is so very interesting to just be standing on that land. The trees are so tall and beautiful. It's God's country :)
No, Texas is God's Country!

Here I say GOD loves us all and you come along and say he just loves Texans...
Well, durn! I missed this yesterday!

Let me clarify this for ya! I'm not talking about God's love of people when I say Texas is God's Country. I'm talkin bout MY love for TEXAS. I've seen lots of different places but there's nowhere on earth that could lure me away!