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pamela
06-14-2004, 01:09 PM
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).
Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.
!And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"
In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. !
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace
Are you laughing?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pond
06-14-2004, 02:04 PM
As I read this ..I am thinking ...Do we all have to pay for the unbelievers .. ? I don`t think God ever leaves us .. that is his promise !

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 02:50 PM
I'm afraid my mouth, or rather my words, are going to get me into trouble on this thread. But in defense of my God and my Christ, I will stand to the death.
__________________________________________________ __________

Those who believe in God and Jesus, those that still keep them in their lives no matter what society says, those that defend his name and follow his holy code of conduct, and those that beg for his divine forgiveness shall be blessed and protected by the Lord. We are his creation, his children, his deciples and lambs. We cannot deny who and what we truly are otherwise we shall be prosecuted for our wicked ways.

Society as a whole has banned the Father and the Christ from being a part of it. But still there are millions, or perhaps only thousands of people that still accept God. It is the individuals that shall be blessed and reborn in heaven. Society is having a religious melt down. The government seems to think that we are better off without any kind of religious backbone, where as we would not even be here without Him. So why are we denying him in politics and schools?

The Bible says that Satin will reign over the Earth for a certain amount of time and during this time he will polute our nations and turn us against Christ and the Holy Father. Guess what ladies and gentleman, the AntiChrist, Satin himself is among us. He is corrupting our world and he will not stop until A- his reign is ended. or B- the Apocolypse destroys our world. The Bible doesnt really state very clearly when the Apocolypse is supposed to happen. But we do know that it is coming. I personally believe that it will be during our lifetime. It will happen when WW3 begins. That is my own personal belief and I gaurantee that I'm not the only who believes this.

The Bible says that only 144,000 will be chosen to take into heaven and live in the kingdom of God when the world ends. Earth as we know it will be destroyed. There will be a rising of nations, world unity, and the AntiChrist shall be the leader of the world. We will have the mark of the devil on our foreheads or right hand otherwise face a most certain death, unless of course you are one of the blessed 144,000.

Those who remain shall be tortured without the relief of death. We shall try to die and will be denied of it until we repent of our ways and sincerely plead with our God for forgiveness. If you've read the book of Revelations you will understand how terrible this will all be. And from what I've read, I believe that it has already begun. It happened to Rome. It is happening again, the only difference is that we are more technologically advanced and we have less faith.

By we, I mean sociey not individuals. I know individuals that have more faith than half of this country put together. I wish I had as much faith as they do, and they are helping me to turn my life towards Christ and to live in a pure and holy manner. It's hard, but it is very well worht it.

Miss Mally
06-14-2004, 03:05 PM
Pond...in reference to what you said....sometimes...those that stand the strongest for God will face the most persecution...but...in reality...just how strongly have we all really stood. I mean...we stand strong in our own personal lives...but many individuals no longer believe we should stand up to society as a whole...it has become a common thing to hear...each to his own...I should only worry about me and mine etc. etc. But the bible tells up to stand against all sin, all evil and to spread his word. This is part of where we as Christians have failed..even though we still believe and worship God. We as Christians have takent the easy road of being passive instead of being soldiers for Christ.

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 03:45 PM
I suppose that I should pack my bags then. According to you all, I will be taking an extended, forced, quite uncomfortable vacation in hell. I respect what you believe, but question whether this armaggedon and tribulation somehow contradicts the bible. Is your god not peaceful. Does he/she/it not give "the antichrist" free will? Does your Jesus not forgive? So, I am to be left in the wake of your god's army to rest with your satin. Society must, in general, keep god out of public buildings becuase the people, and some very persuasive ones at that, ask of it. In our republic we have seperation of church and state, which garuntees us that there will be no political power in the hands of the church. If people must take god out of schools they will. There is a wider acceptence of differing religious beliefs in America now, and people do not want Christians to be the only ones recognized, just as you would not want others to be. Therefore the only win-win situation is the middle ground in between. I am proud of not believing that my religion is superior to others. Thank you for your ears.

Girlie
06-14-2004, 03:55 PM
I personally don't believe that there will only be 144,000 making it into heaven.

Pond
06-14-2004, 04:36 PM
Pond...in reference to what you said....sometimes...those that stand the strongest for God will face the most persecution...but...in reality...just how strongly have we all really stood. I mean...we stand strong in our own personal lives...but many individuals no longer believe we should stand up to society as a whole...it has become a common thing to hear...each to his own...I should only worry about me and mine etc. etc. But the bible tells up to stand against all sin, all evil and to spread his word. This is part of where we as Christians have failed..even though we still believe and worship God. We as Christians have takent the easy road of being passive instead of being soldiers for Christ.


I say" each to their own " about things that" I KNOW "are not what God wants me to stand up against .. A true Soldier knows what battle they are in ...thank you kindly ... :)

Pond
06-14-2004, 04:40 PM
Monkey ..would you quote where in the bible it says that only 144,000 will be in heaven ... :)

Pond
06-14-2004, 04:43 PM
I suppose that I should pack my bags then. According to you all, I will be taking an extended, forced, quite uncomfortable vacation in hell. I respect what you believe, but question whether this armaggedon and tribulation somehow contradicts the bible. Is your god not peaceful. Does he/she/it not give "the antichrist" free will? Does your Jesus not forgive? So, I am to be left in the wake of your god's army to rest with your satin. Society must, in general, keep god out of public buildings becuase the people, and some very persuasive ones at that, ask of it. In our republic we have seperation of church and state, which garuntees us that there will be no political power in the hands of the church. If people must take god out of schools they will. There is a wider acceptence of differing religious beliefs in America now, and people do not want Christians to be the only ones recognized, just as you would not want others to be. Therefore the only win-win situation is the middle ground in between. I am proud of not believing that my religion is superior to others. Thank you for your ears.

If you end up in Hell ...then I will tell you bye now ... I do not think you will need any bags,tho ... :)

Miss Mally
06-14-2004, 04:49 PM
I suppose that I should pack my bags then. According to you all, I will be taking an extended, forced, quite uncomfortable vacation in hell. I respect what you believe, but question whether this armaggedon and tribulation somehow contradicts the bible. Is your god not peaceful. Does he/she/it not give "the antichrist" free will? Does your Jesus not forgive? So, I am to be left in the wake of your god's army to rest with your satin. Society must, in general, keep god out of public buildings becuase the people, and some very persuasive ones at that, ask of it. In our republic we have seperation of church and state, which garuntees us that there will be no political power in the hands of the church. If people must take god out of schools they will. There is a wider acceptence of differing religious beliefs in America now, and people do not want Christians to be the only ones recognized, just as you would not want others to be. Therefore the only win-win situation is the middle ground in between. I am proud of not believing that my religion is superior to others. Thank you for your ears.

Rocin...you are mistaken in believing that the constitution supports seperation of church and state. The constitution only prevents the government from establishing a national religion. Allowing the bible in a classroom is not an establishment of religion. Allowing prayer in school is not an establishment of religion. The constitution does prevent the prohibition of the free exercise of religion. Banning God in the public arena....is a prohibition...which we Christians have allowed much to our own shame....we should have fought for our rights from the beginning.

God is a peacefull God...but he is also a vengeful and jealous God. Jesus forgives...those who seek him, those who repent of their sins and are baptised for the remission of those sins.

Rocin...you have the freedom to be what ever religion you wish....no one is stopping you. But it seems to me...you want the freedom to prevent the rest of us from even being about to discuss our religion...if by no other means than to make us feel we should be silent so that your not made uncomfortable.

Goalie
06-14-2004, 05:11 PM
Revelation Chapters 7 and 14

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 07:20 PM
I suppose that I should pack my bags then. According to you all, I will be taking an extended, forced, quite uncomfortable vacation in hell. I respect what you believe, but question whether this armaggedon and tribulation somehow contradicts the bible. Is your god not peaceful. Does he/she/it not give "the antichrist" free will? Does your Jesus not forgive? So, I am to be left in the wake of your god's army to rest with your satin. Society must, in general, keep god out of public buildings becuase the people, and some very persuasive ones at that, ask of it. In our republic we have seperation of church and state, which garuntees us that there will be no political power in the hands of the church. If people must take god out of schools they will. There is a wider acceptence of differing religious beliefs in America now, and people do not want Christians to be the only ones recognized, just as you would not want others to be. Therefore the only win-win situation is the middle ground in between. I am proud of not believing that my religion is superior to others. Thank you for your ears.

Rocin...you are mistaken in believing that the constitution supports seperation of church and state. The constitution only prevents the government from establishing a national religion. Allowing the bible in a classroom is not an establishment of religion. Allowing prayer in school is not an establishment of religion. The constitution does prevent the prohibition of the free exercise of religion. Banning God in the public arena....is a prohibition...which we Christians have allowed much to our own shame....we should have fought for our rights from the beginning.

God is a peacefull God...but he is also a vengeful and jealous God. Jesus forgives...those who seek him, those who repent of their sins and are baptised for the remission of those sins.

Rocin...you have the freedom to be what ever religion you wish....no one is stopping you. But it seems to me...you want the freedom to prevent the rest of us from even being about to discuss our religion...if by no other means than to make us feel we should be silent so that your not made uncomfortable. I did not ask you to be silent at all Mally. I am learning more and more through this. By no means be silent. This does not make me uncomfortable. I did not say that the bible in schools would be an institution of religion, and for the most part agree with you. I do not wish for you to stop discussing your faiths, I just wish to discuss with you. I am learning as I go Mally.

jenfrog81
06-14-2004, 08:01 PM
Revelation Chapters 7 and 14 Is that the chaper that Monkey is talking about ...

Miss Mally
06-14-2004, 09:25 PM
I suppose that I should pack my bags then. According to you all, I will be taking an extended, forced, quite uncomfortable vacation in hell. I respect what you believe, but question whether this armaggedon and tribulation somehow contradicts the bible. Is your god not peaceful. Does he/she/it not give "the antichrist" free will? Does your Jesus not forgive? So, I am to be left in the wake of your god's army to rest with your satin. Society must, in general, keep god out of public buildings becuase the people, and some very persuasive ones at that, ask of it. In our republic we have seperation of church and state, which garuntees us that there will be no political power in the hands of the church. If people must take god out of schools they will. There is a wider acceptence of differing religious beliefs in America now, and people do not want Christians to be the only ones recognized, just as you would not want others to be. Therefore the only win-win situation is the middle ground in between. I am proud of not believing that my religion is superior to others. Thank you for your ears.

Rocin...you are mistaken in believing that the constitution supports seperation of church and state. The constitution only prevents the government from establishing a national religion. Allowing the bible in a classroom is not an establishment of religion. Allowing prayer in school is not an establishment of religion. The constitution does prevent the prohibition of the free exercise of religion. Banning God in the public arena....is a prohibition...which we Christians have allowed much to our own shame....we should have fought for our rights from the beginning.

God is a peacefull God...but he is also a vengeful and jealous God. Jesus forgives...those who seek him, those who repent of their sins and are baptised for the remission of those sins.

Rocin...you have the freedom to be what ever religion you wish....no one is stopping you. But it seems to me...you want the freedom to prevent the rest of us from even being about to discuss our religion...if by no other means than to make us feel we should be silent so that your not made uncomfortable. I did not ask you to be silent at all Mally. I am learning more and more through this. By no means be silent. This does not make me uncomfortable. I did not say that the bible in schools would be an institution of religion, and for the most part agree with you. I do not wish for you to stop discussing your faiths, I just wish to discuss with you. I am learning as I go Mally.

Okay...that is cool. I misunderstood you. For a Christian...God is in all places...and we are to be Christians first...whether we are teachers or political leaders. People have misused the constitution to make sure that a Christain can not speak of their faith if they are a teacher or a political leader. This in fact is exactly what our forefathers were trying to prevent. We should have the freedom to express our beliefs no matter what our professional jobs...even if we work for the government. :)

Girlie
06-14-2004, 10:07 PM
Monkey ..would you quote where in the bible it says that only 144,000 will be in heaven ... :)

Thank you pond but I know where it's at ... I said I didn't believe that only 144,000 will be in heaven. I believe that the book of Revelation has a very much deeper meaning than what is literally written.

jenfrog81
06-15-2004, 09:45 AM
Girlie , I have to toally agree with you on this one . Cause I know that that God will have so much more souls in Heaven then that . People do get second ,third , fouth hundreds of changes if they just ask GOd for forgiviness...and if there really is no such thing as forgiveness , THEN HELL WE ALL ARE COMING TO HELL !

Anonymous
06-15-2004, 12:06 PM
I suppose that I should pack my bags then. According to you all, I will be taking an extended, forced, quite uncomfortable vacation in hell. I respect what you believe, but question whether this armaggedon and tribulation somehow contradicts the bible. Is your god not peaceful. Does he/she/it not give "the antichrist" free will? Does your Jesus not forgive? So, I am to be left in the wake of your god's army to rest with your satin. Society must, in general, keep god out of public buildings becuase the people, and some very persuasive ones at that, ask of it. In our republic we have seperation of church and state, which garuntees us that there will be no political power in the hands of the church. If people must take god out of schools they will. There is a wider acceptence of differing religious beliefs in America now, and people do not want Christians to be the only ones recognized, just as you would not want others to be. Therefore the only win-win situation is the middle ground in between. I am proud of not believing that my religion is superior to others. Thank you for your ears.

Rocin...you are mistaken in believing that the constitution supports seperation of church and state. The constitution only prevents the government from establishing a national religion. Allowing the bible in a classroom is not an establishment of religion. Allowing prayer in school is not an establishment of religion. The constitution does prevent the prohibition of the free exercise of religion. Banning God in the public arena....is a prohibition...which we Christians have allowed much to our own shame....we should have fought for our rights from the beginning.

God is a peacefull God...but he is also a vengeful and jealous God. Jesus forgives...those who seek him, those who repent of their sins and are baptised for the remission of those sins.

Rocin...you have the freedom to be what ever religion you wish....no one is stopping you. But it seems to me...you want the freedom to prevent the rest of us from even being about to discuss our religion...if by no other means than to make us feel we should be silent so that your not made uncomfortable. I did not ask you to be silent at all Mally. I am learning more and more through this. By no means be silent. This does not make me uncomfortable. I did not say that the bible in schools would be an institution of religion, and for the most part agree with you. I do not wish for you to stop discussing your faiths, I just wish to discuss with you. I am learning as I go Mally.

Okay...that is cool. I misunderstood you. For a Christian...God is in all places...and we are to be Christians first...whether we are teachers or political leaders. People have misused the constitution to make sure that a Christain can not speak of their faith if they are a teacher or a political leader. This in fact is exactly what our forefathers were trying to prevent. We should have the freedom to express our beliefs no matter what our professional jobs...even if we work for the government. :) Christians should most definently be able to express their beliefs, and so should all others. However I stand with you only on letting religion break the borders of government and political office. I do not agree on letting religion come into our public schools. Private schools are sometimes based on religion, and I can understand that, yet public schools feature a wider variety of people who, (and I am targeting teachers as well as murals and the mentioning of god or other dieties) all believe many different things. This can make the enviroment dangerous for others, spiritually, physically and mentally. If there was, lets say, an atheist teacher, and he was allowed to speak of his beliefs, then children who would otherwise be Christian may get influenced by this teacher's opinions. We need to keep religion under wraps in public schools. In a public office, however, the vast majority are adults who are hard kept in their belief structure and are not as easily persuaded.

souldancefree
06-15-2004, 01:36 PM
The 144,000 are supposivly just the JEWS.

jenfrog81
06-15-2004, 02:10 PM
The 144,000 are supposivly just the JEWS. Can someone pleasse Tell me where this is ??????

souldancefree
06-15-2004, 10:48 PM
Goalie already did .... revalation chapters 7 and 14

souldancefree
06-15-2004, 10:51 PM
thats just the idea i get from reading it and from what ive heard.

Miss Mally
06-16-2004, 06:20 AM
Chapter 7 is very specific about where the 144 thousand come from...listing the number and the tribe of Israel they come from.

In verse 9...Revelations goes on to say...that there is a great multitude from every nation...that no one could put a number to standing before the throne and befor the lamb.

Girlie
06-16-2004, 06:53 AM
Chapter 7 is very specific about where the 144 thousand come from...listing the number and the tribe of Israel they come from.

In verse 9...Revelations goes on to say...that there is a great multitude from every nation...that no one could put a number to standing before the throne and befor the lamb.

That is exactly why I believe what I believe ... that heaven will not be limited to only 144,000 ... if we'll read that passage, it also states what some of those tribes will be comprised of ... even mentions virgins.

wellspring
06-16-2004, 09:00 AM
[quote] Christians should most definently be able to express their beliefs, and so should all others. However I stand with you only on letting religion break the borders of government and political office. I do not agree on letting religion come into our public schools. Private schools are sometimes based on religion, and I can understand that, yet public schools feature a wider variety of people who, (and I am targeting teachers as well as murals and the mentioning of god or other dieties) all believe many different things. This can make the enviroment dangerous for others, spiritually, physically and mentally. If there was, lets say, an atheist teacher, and he was allowed to speak of his beliefs, then children who would otherwise be Christian may get influenced by this teacher's opinions. We need to keep religion under wraps in public schools. In a public office, however, the vast majority are adults who are hard kept in their belief structure and are not as easily persuaded.

This happens every day in public schools. My daughter has been taught evolution which goes against what she has been raised to believe in. My daughter has been taught about the Big Bang theory which goes against everything she has been raised to believe in. My daughter has been taught that sex between man and man or woman and woman is to be excepted which goes against every thing that she has been raised to believe in. My daughter has been taught that sex between unmarried individuals is okay which goes against every thing she has been taught to believe in. So is it okay to confuse my daughter by teaching her things contrary to her religion but not okay to teach children of other religions something that is contrary to their religion. My daughter has been taught about the Islamic religion, this also goes against every thing she has been taught to believe in. One year she studied many different religions in the world. They covered Buddhism, Hinduism and Islamic in great detail. When it came to the Christian faith it was barely mentioned. I do not have a problem with taking a spoken prayer over the PA system out of the school. My daughter knows that she can use the moment of silence that is given at the beginning of every day to say a prayer. I have a problem with the insistance that we not speak of our religion for fear of offending someone or confusing someone and yet it is acceptable to teach and speak of other religions and beliefs in school.

Miss Mally
06-16-2004, 09:09 AM
[quote] Christians should most definently be able to express their beliefs, and so should all others. However I stand with you only on letting religion break the borders of government and political office. I do not agree on letting religion come into our public schools. Private schools are sometimes based on religion, and I can understand that, yet public schools feature a wider variety of people who, (and I am targeting teachers as well as murals and the mentioning of god or other dieties) all believe many different things. This can make the enviroment dangerous for others, spiritually, physically and mentally. If there was, lets say, an atheist teacher, and he was allowed to speak of his beliefs, then children who would otherwise be Christian may get influenced by this teacher's opinions. We need to keep religion under wraps in public schools. In a public office, however, the vast majority are adults who are hard kept in their belief structure and are not as easily persuaded.

This happens every day in public schools. My daughter has been taught evolution which goes against what she has been raised to believe in. My daughter has been taught about the Big Bang theory which goes against everything she has been raised to believe in. My daughter has been taught that sex between man and man or woman and woman is to be excepted which goes against every thing that she has been raised to believe in. My daughter has been taught that sex between unmarried individuals is okay which goes against every thing she has been taught to believe in. So is it okay to confuse my daughter by teaching her things contrary to her religion but not okay to teach children of other religions something that is contrary to their religion. My daughter has been taught about the Islamic religion, this also goes against every thing she has been taught to believe in. One year she studied many different religions in the world. They covered Buddhism, Hinduism and Islamic in great detail. When it came to the Christian faith it was barely mentioned. I do not have a problem with taking a spoken prayer over the PA system out of the school. My daughter knows that she can use the moment of silence that is given at the beginning of every day to say a prayer. I have a problem with the insistance that we not speak of our religion for fear of offending someone or confusing someone and yet it is acceptable to teach and speak of other religions and beliefs in school.

Thank You Wellspring....that was well said.