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Thread: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

  1. #1
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    Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    So, should a state that doesn't recognize gay marriage grant a gay divorce?

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...-84536747.html

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    So, should a state that doesn't recognize gay marriage grant a gay divorce?

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...-84536747.html
    No. If the state doesnt recognize the marriage, how can it divorce a union that doesnt exist? No again.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    I was thinking that Texas honored legal marriages performed in other states. No? Say the marriage age was younger in another state where a couple got married, isn't the marriage still recognized in Texas were they to move here? I know that if first cousins marry in a state where that is legal, then move to Texas, the marriage is recognized as legal.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Texas has a law that says that Texas does not recognize any marriage except that between a man and a women.
    Profit" is a dirty word only to the leeches of the world. They want it seen as evil, so they can more easily snatch what they did not earn." -Victor

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Texas has a law that says that Texas does not recognize any marriage except that between a man and a women.
    So they only recognize some legal marriages. Ain't it sorta ironic that only men and women can get a divorce. Here we are wanting the family to stay together yet Texas grants divorces willy nilly, but a gay couple.... they have to stay married. If Texas is against gay marriages, why wouldn't they want to dissolve them? Now tell me this.. at the end of the year when they file their income tax while living in Texas, can they file as a married couple?

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    They will file single. Texas doesnt recognize the marriage. Period.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    So they only recognize some legal marriages. Ain't it sorta ironic that only men and women can get a divorce. Here we are wanting the family to stay together yet Texas grants divorces willy nilly, but a gay couple.... they have to stay married. If Texas is against gay marriages, why wouldn't they want to dissolve them? Now tell me this.. at the end of the year when they file their income tax while living in Texas, can they file as a married couple?
    How can Texas dissolve something that, in its eyes, doesn't exist?
    The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart. ~ Helen Keller ~

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Kitty View Post
    How can Texas dissolve something that, in its eyes, doesn't exist?
    It appears they can void the marriage. Wonder how they void something that doesn't exist. What's the difference in voiding the marriage and granting a divorce? Isn't the outcome the same... the couple would no longer be married. Everything just sounds like word play to me.

    I don't understand why someone wants to pay money to be divorced if by moving to Texas means they were never married in the first place thereby automatically getting rid of the marriage for free. I understand that they are concerned that if they move out of Texas they will suddenly be married again. One couple has an adopted child they are dragging through all this mess.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    So they only recognize some legal marriages. Ain't it sorta ironic that only men and women can get a divorce. Here we are wanting the family to stay together yet Texas grants divorces willy nilly, but a gay couple.... they have to stay married. If Texas is against gay marriages, why wouldn't they want to dissolve them? Now tell me this.. at the end of the year when they file their income tax while living in Texas, can they file as a married couple?
    That marriage is not recognized in Texas...period. How can you divorce someone who isn't married?

    As far as income tax...that is federal not local....and that would be a federal issue. As gay marriage is not recognized federally...I would assume no...but that it is not closely monitored and is doen anyway....but that is an assumption...I haven't checked the IRS laws on it.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    It appears they can void the marriage. Wonder how they void something that doesn't exist. What's the difference in voiding the marriage and granting a divorce? Isn't the outcome the same... the couple would no longer be married. Everything just sounds like word play to me.

    I don't understand why someone wants to pay money to be divorced if by moving to Texas means they were never married in the first place thereby automatically getting rid of the marriage for free. I understand that they are concerned that if they move out of Texas they will suddenly be married again. One couple has an adopted child they are dragging through all this mess.
    part of this is legal manuvering Julie....several gay couples have married in other states and moved to Texas to get their divorce. It is part of a plan to force Texas to recognize the marriage in the first place. If a divorce is granted...it shows that Texas recognized the marriage.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    part of this is legal manuvering Julie....several gay couples have married in other states and moved to Texas to get their divorce. It is part of a plan to force Texas to recognize the marriage in the first place. If a divorce is granted...it shows that Texas recognized the marriage.
    But voiding it doesn't.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    the legal definition of void....meaning "no validity" is where the difference is. That is why I said it is legal manuvering.

    When you grant a divorce...you give legal status to the marriage. When you void it...you are saying it had no validity in the first place.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    the legal definition of void....meaning "no validity" is where the difference is. That is why I said it is legal manuvering.

    When you grant a divorce...you give legal status to the marriage. When you void it...you are saying it had no validity in the first place.
    See how government messes everything up when they try to meddle in morals instead of legalities? They have federal rules and state rules, and states can be different from each other. If the government would get out of the marriage business the problem would be solved. If they want to offer some sort of partnership agreement, or some other sort of legal contract in order for two people to have legal ways to claim and divide property and even who gets the children, then fine. Let "marriage" be the religious vows they are supposed to be. Let the churches decide who is to be married and who isn't. After all, isn't the dilemma whether gay marriage is moral or not and aren't morals typically developed by your religious affiliation?

  14. #14

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    TOOOOO much church business in the governments, federal and states, business. Separation of church and state should be just that. No religious influences in laws or regulations, period!

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    I believe Texas T that we have been seeing that for a while now (Separation of church and state)...and you can see the shape this country has gotten itself into....we have fallen from the Golden City on the Hill to the tarnished broken city in debt...and we've become a laughing stock around the world...it's a shame.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Governments work with moral issues as well...isn't murder a moral issue...theft....lying...all of these are moral issues...but our government has to have laws to address the issues...not just some church managing moral issues. Morality goes beyond religious issues...it is how societies work as well.

    What happens when you say Religion should regulate all morality issues...then your religious organizations start regulating issues of murder? It is a 10 commandment. This is an extreme example you say...and would never happen? Take a look at the Suddan....there in that country...government do not regulate issues of morality...Religion does....and because there really is only one main religion...they are the ones that get to decide what the morality of murder is...and that is morality is...it is okay for muslims to murder Christians.

    So which religion gets to decide what is marriage...what is the correct moral code? Anything goes? Do you base marriage on the bible....or on the Koran....or on what the Mormans believe? What if you claim your relgion believes it is okay to marry animals?

    Since we do have freedom of relgion...and soooo many religions and differing beliefs...and so much of our tax laws etc have to deal with marriage....there has to be some government regulation...in order for there to be a standard for the contractual basis of marriage.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
    TOOOOO much church business in the governments, federal and states, business. Separation of church and state should be just that. No religious influences in laws or regulations, period!
    So you think the government shouldn't deal with murder?

  18. #18

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Some religions still do decide on who can marry. A Priest, Preacher, Deacon - they can decide if they want to preform a ceremony; so, religion hasn't been taken out completely.

    With that said......

    Government has changed religious laws for so called toting "Christians". "Christians" are allowed to divorce without Biblically accepted reasons (No Fault Divorce). "Christians" can re-marry even tho they have a living ex-spouse.

    However, the ONLY claim I've heard about why to not accept a same-sex marriage is because of Biblical/Religious reasons. Funny though, I don't recall "Christians" throwing fits when our government changed laws to benefit them. Such a discriminating stance I think! If Rick Perry is such a "Christian" man, why doesn't he remove Texas from recognizing the No Fault Divorce? Why doesn't he place a law into effect that will keep couples from marrying if there is a living ex-spouse and not recognize Common Law couples? Do you honestly think that is something so called toting "Christians" are going to stand for? I honestly think it would shut some people up! I know I wouldn't care to still be married to my ex-husband.

    Same-sex marriage ultimately doesn't have anything to do with religion. "Christians" have proven that! It's merely about discrimination. We are not all one! We are not all equal!

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Governments work with moral issues as well...isn't murder a moral issue...theft....lying...all of these are moral issues...but our government has to have laws to address the issues...not just some church managing moral issues. Morality goes beyond religious issues...it is how societies work as well.

    What happens when you say Religion should regulate all morality issues...then your religious organizations start regulating issues of murder? It is a 10 commandment. This is an extreme example you say...and would never happen? Take a look at the Suddan....there in that country...government do not regulate issues of morality...Religion does....and because there really is only one main religion...they are the ones that get to decide what the morality of murder is...and that is morality is...it is okay for muslims to murder Christians.

    So which religion gets to decide what is marriage...what is the correct moral code? Anything goes? Do you base marriage on the bible....or on the Koran....or on what the Mormans believe? What if you claim your relgion believes it is okay to marry animals?

    Since we do have freedom of relgion...and soooo many religions and differing beliefs...and so much of our tax laws etc have to deal with marriage....there has to be some government regulation...in order for there to be a standard for the contractual basis of marriage.
    It would be the same as it is now as far as government recognizing marriages go. Any religious marriage is recognized. The JP would just lose the ability to perform "marriages", but could preside over partnership contracts maybe.

    As far as murder, stealing, etc... those are criminal wrongs because they are preying on someone else without their consent. Laws set up to protect our citizens are much different that laws set up in an attempt to protect our morals (whatever those may be).

  20. #20

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    Why is the government involved in marriage AT ALL? What possible business is it of any government or agency to say who can/who cannot marry? If it is strictly a construct of so called toting "Christians", why not just leave it to toting "Christians"?

    "...democracy must be more than what the majority insists upon."
    Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope

  21. #21

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by curious_george View Post
    Why is the government involved in marriage AT ALL? What possible business is it of any government or agency to say who can/who cannot marry? If it is strictly a construct of so called toting "Christians", why not just leave it to toting "Christians"?
    You have proven my point! Allow us to make all the changes we want just to benefit ourselves. What a very Christian attitude!

    We were not all made the same! We were not all expected to be the same! God made blacks, whites, etc. Interracial couples went through Hell and back just to have the right to marry and be accepted because Christians claimed the Bible forbid them to be as one.

    When gays/lesbians are referred to as "them", "they" or "their kind", it shows discrimination! There have been so many cases where partners have lost their loved one and were denied the last moments with them. We have California selling off belongings with no legal right. Biblically, we are all brothers and sisters so that could be used as their legal right to sit next to their dying partner. But like I said, this isn't about religion or the Bible. It's DISCRIMINATION!

    Christians' sin of allowing religious changes to take place that are unaccepted in the Bible is just as sinful as most claim same-sex marriage to be.

    I pray for peace in this country and God help Rick Perry's soul for getting involved (when he has yet to date) only for a political stunt and not for the right reason. It's all about elections!! I detest that man and his arrogance!

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    :Christians' sin of allowing religious changes to take place that are unaccepted in the Bible is just as sinful as most claim same-sex marriage to be.

    Governments make changes....and if those changes do not conform with biblical principals...that doesn't make all Christians sinning.

    Your comment about no fault divorce...when the bible says that for someone to divorce and remarry except for the cause of adultery...that it is a sin. Just because the Government allows for that...doesn't make me a sinner. The sin is the same...those that divorce without biblical cause and remarry are the sinners...not all Christians.

    That is the same with Abortion. Abortion is wrong...it is murder. The government allows it. I don't like it...I don't vote for people who support it...but because it is allowed...doesn't make me a sinner....or any other Christian. Those that are sinner...whether they be Christian or not..are those that support it...those that work in the industry...those that vote for it...and those that do it or have it done.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    It would be the same as it is now as far as government recognizing marriages go. Any religious marriage is recognized. The JP would just lose the ability to perform "marriages", but could preside over partnership contracts maybe.

    As far as murder, stealing, etc... those are criminal wrongs because they are preying on someone else without their consent. Laws set up to protect our citizens are much different that laws set up in an attempt to protect our morals (whatever those may be).
    Laws protecting marriage...does protect citizens. When you make marriage something that anyone or anything can do...it devalues it. It hurts our whole society. Not all laws are to protect individuals...but are sometimes to protect the society as a whole.

    As far as any religious marriage being recognized...what about people who are not relgious...what about people who do not believe in God...athiests...are they not allowed to get married then?

  24. #24

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Governments make changes....and if those changes do not conform with biblical principals...that doesn't make all Christians sinning.

    Your comment about no fault divorce...when the bible says that for someone to divorce and remarry except for the cause of adultery...that it is a sin. Just because the Government allows for that...doesn't make me a sinner. The sin is the same...those that divorce without biblical cause and remarry are the sinners...not all Christians.

    That is the same with Abortion. Abortion is wrong...it is murder. The government allows it. I don't like it...I don't vote for people who support it...but because it is allowed...doesn't make me a sinner....or any other Christian. Those that are sinner...whether they be Christian or not..are those that support it...those that work in the industry...those that vote for it...and those that do it or have it done.
    And if you, yourself, agree with the statement you've made, then my post doesn't include you - my statement is to those who claim to be Christian are guilty of what I've spoken of but yet throw out that same-sex marriage is wrong ONLY because the Bible says so. It would be no more wrong then what you have done. Divorcing without Biblical reasons and re-marrying before the ex is dead.

    Just sad that you can spend over 20 years with someone then be told you have no rights to be with them as they pass on. Understand if states don't want to recognize same-sex partners but to deny these people to spend last moments with those dying - very sad and inexcusable! We should not live in a country of HATE and that is what this is about. HATE! Hate the blacks. Hate the hispanics! Hate the gays/lesbians! My heart cries for these individuals that are going through this right now.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Julie...one thing to think about...marriage is not just a religious institution or a private affair. It is recognized socially. Studies prove that marriage is important in several ways for societies to function well. Children raised outside of intact marriages with both a father and mother...are at higher risks for poverty...crime...school failure...substance abuse...and child abuse.

    When the lines of what marriage is...and who it is between are blurred...then you see an increase in these problems. When it is jsut as acceptable to livce together with an agreement (contract for say 5 years) and then children are born of that live in relationship...who protects them from the social problems mentioned above that studies have shown to be risk factors? The tax payer or the "government" has to take responsibility. Same goes for same sex marriage...it is not an ideal situation for raising kids in...there is not a mom and dad in the picture....these children are also at higher risk....and who bares the burden...the society does...the tax payer...and that is who marriage laws really protect.

    Course...I feel the same way about divorce...it is wrong...sinful and destructive to both families, children and societies. It is long term economically hard on a society.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    And if you, yourself, agree with the statement you've made, then my post doesn't include you - my statement is to those who claim to be Christian are guilty of what I've spoken of but yet throw out that same-sex marriage is wrong ONLY because the Bible says so. It would be no more wrong then what you have done. Divorcing without Biblical reasons and re-marrying before the ex is dead.

    Just sad that you can spend over 20 years with someone then be told you have no rights to be with them as they pass on. Understand if states don't want to recognize same-sex partners but to deny these people to spend last moments with those dying - very sad and inexcusable! We should not live in a country of HATE and that is what this is about. HATE! Hate the blacks. Hate the hispanics! Hate the gays/lesbians! My heart cries for these individuals that are going through this right now.
    Okay...I understand what you are saying on the Christian thing...please though just clarify that you are talking about unbiblically divorced and remarried people and not Christians as a whole group.

    My heart goes out to the gays that are dying and not changing their ways. I am more concerned for their souls than whether they get to spend worldly time together. By accepting and acting as if their life style is okay....instead of a strong stance on it being wrong...they are being condemned to a much worse fate than being alone.

  27. #27

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Laws protecting marriage...does protect citizens. When you make marriage something that anyone or anything can do...it devalues it. It hurts our whole society. Not all laws are to protect individuals...but are sometimes to protect the society as a whole.

    As far as any religious marriage being recognized...what about people who are not relgious...what about people who do not believe in God...athiests...are they not allowed to get married then?
    I did find this reading interesting -

    The concept of marriage predates Christianity and the other two forms of Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Islam which share a common origin and common values. Marriage is very ancient dating back beyond recorded history and was practiced by all people of many cultures, ethnicities and belief systems on all continents.

    The prevalace of the concept of marriage came to the forefront of culture when humankind evolved from hunter gatherer to agriculture and pastoralism which occured during the neolithic/agricultural revolution about 10,000 years ago.

    Originally "marriage" was a private, binding contract between clans (families) to form an alliance, thereby increasing the clan's chances for survival in war against rival clans. A "dowry" was given by each clan to "seal the deal". Marriage was contractual, considered a passing of "property" between clans as a symbol of intention to honor the agreement being made. Property took many forms: cattle, land, children, whatever was considered to be of great value at the time. In the United Kingdom, a requirement for a public announcement in a Christian parish (banns of marriage) was introduced by the Roman Catholic Church in 1215. This set the precident for marriage as is recognized by the Christian community.

    The origins of marriage is NOT religious, nor does it have anything to do with the God of the Abrahamic religions. It was around way before organized religion which by Christian standards means it is PAGAN. Christians "borrowed" many pagan rites and rituals so Pagans would convert more readily and easily to Christianity.

    In modern times in the United States, before a legal marriage ceremony can be performed, one must obtain a marraige license from government authorities. When a legally married couple seeks a divorce they must go before a judge to have the marriage annulled. Ministers and priests do not issue legally binding marriage licenses, nor do they have the legal authority to grant a divorce. The religious concept of marriage has nothing to do with the legal concept. Church and State are completely separate in the case of the institution of marriage.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Site the source please.

    First of all...historically...it is not exactly accurate. Judasim goes back to when the first man was created...and God established marriage then...between the first man and woman he created. Just because there is not a historically written document from that time...doesn't mean that God is not who established the concept.

    Most pagan religions will find parrallels with the Bible...as all peoples had at one time the same origins. And while I agree...that the Roman Catholic church borrowed some pagan ideas...or better said...allowed them to become part of their cerimonies etc...that doesn't mean that all Christians have.

  29. #29

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Okay...I understand what you are saying on the Christian thing...please though just clarify that you are talking about unbiblically divorced and remarried people and not Christians as a whole group.

    My heart goes out to the gays that are dying and not changing their ways. I am more concerned for their souls than whether they get to spend worldly time together. By accepting and acting as if their life style is okay....instead of a strong stance on it being wrong...they are being condemned to a much worse fate than being alone.
    Sorry but will not restate my words. Christians are in " " because so many claim to be but act like they do. The word is thrown around like a dirty ball. You can blame the ones I'm speaking of for the reason people such as yourself are looked at like they are. These people are your family, friends and/or neighbors. That is why I live my life, hurt for those who are being treated unfairly and try to make sure I'm doing what is needed to live a glorified everlasting life.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    Some religions still do decide on who can marry. A Priest, Preacher, Deacon - they can decide if they want to preform a ceremony; so, religion hasn't been taken out completely.

    With that said......

    Government has changed religious laws for so called toting "Christians". "Christians" are allowed to divorce without Biblically accepted reasons (No Fault Divorce). "Christians" can re-marry even tho they have a living ex-spouse.

    However, the ONLY claim I've heard about why to not accept a same-sex marriage is because of Biblical/Religious reasons. Funny though, I don't recall "Christians" throwing fits when our government changed laws to benefit them. Such a discriminating stance I think! If Rick Perry is such a "Christian" man, why doesn't he remove Texas from recognizing the No Fault Divorce? Why doesn't he place a law into effect that will keep couples from marrying if there is a living ex-spouse and not recognize Common Law couples? Do you honestly think that is something so called toting "Christians" are going to stand for? I honestly think it would shut some people up! I know I wouldn't care to still be married to my ex-husband.

    Same-sex marriage ultimately doesn't have anything to do with religion. "Christians" have proven that! It's merely about discrimination. We are not all one! We are not all equal!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    And if you, yourself, agree with the statement you've made, then my post doesn't include you - my statement is to those who claim to be Christian are guilty of what I've spoken of but yet throw out that same-sex marriage is wrong ONLY because the Bible says so. It would be no more wrong then what you have done. Divorcing without Biblical reasons and re-marrying before the ex is dead.

    Just sad that you can spend over 20 years with someone then be told you have no rights to be with them as they pass on. Understand if states don't want to recognize same-sex partners but to deny these people to spend last moments with those dying - very sad and inexcusable! We should not live in a country of HATE and that is what this is about. HATE! Hate the blacks. Hate the hispanics! Hate the gays/lesbians! My heart cries for these individuals that are going through this right now.
    You forgot to add "Hate the toting Christians"....(seems you're not to fond of them...the way you keep saying it). No one is perfect....not even toting Christians as you put it...

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Lot of gays are also pedifiles....so should I lump them in all together...just because some act like they do? I don't look at people as groups...I look at individuals. I don't judge you because you say your a cowgirl and judge you by what other cowgirls do...I judge you based on your actions.

    you can read my statements on this board for years...about what I think about divorce and adultery...as well as homosexuality. I prefer to be judged based on my actions...not what someone who claims to be a christian does or says.

    You might find this link interesting. Be sure and read the last bullet.

    http://www.cwfa.org/articles/4589/LE...mily/index.htm

  32. #32

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Visionary View Post
    You forgot to add "Hate the toting Christians"....(seems you're not to fond of them...the way you keep saying it). No one is perfect....not even toting Christians as you put it...
    Didn't say I HATED them - I don't HATE anyone...well there is this one person but that's beside the point.

    I am bugged and annoyed by these people.

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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    Didn't say I HATED them - I don't HATE anyone...well there is this one person but that's beside the point.

    I am bugged and annoyed by these people.
    The strong words you use and the reflection in them sounds like you do....and that is judging as well. The thing that bugs you and annoys you about these people is the same as you are doing against them.

  34. #34

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Lot of gays are also pedifiles....so should I lump them in all together...just because some act like they do? I don't look at people as groups...I look at individuals. I don't judge you because you say your a cowgirl and judge you by what other cowgirls do...I judge you based on your actions.

    you can read my statements on this board for years...about what I think about divorce and adultery...as well as homosexuality. I prefer to be judged based on my actions...not what someone who claims to be a christian does or says.

    You might find this link interesting. Be sure and read the last bullet.

    http://www.cwfa.org/articles/4589/LE...mily/index.htm
    Lots of heterosexuals are pedifiles. It would be nice if everyone was looked at individually but sadly...there is always one bad seed that creates issues for the rest of us.

    I will read the link.

  35. #35

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Visionary View Post
    The strong words you use and the reflection in them sounds like you do....and that is judging as well. The thing that bugs you and annoys you about these people is the same as you are doing against them.
    You really have no clue who I am or what I am about. Being bugged and annoyed by people is not hate. What makes hate is your attempt to make things seem different than what they are.

  36. #36
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Lot of gays are also pedifiles....so should I lump them in all together...just because some act like they do? I don't look at people as groups...I look at individuals. I don't judge you because you say your a cowgirl and judge you by what other cowgirls do...I judge you based on your actions.

    you can read my statements on this board for years...about what I think about divorce and adultery...as well as homosexuality. I prefer to be judged based on my actions...not what someone who claims to be a christian does or says.

    You might find this link interesting. Be sure and read the last bullet.

    http://www.cwfa.org/articles/4589/LE...mily/index.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    Lots of heterosexuals are pedifiles. It would be nice if everyone was looked at individually but sadly...there is always one bad seed that creates issues for the rest of us.

    I will read the link.
    I believe that was what Miss Mally was saying.....

    And you say it would be nice if "everyone was looked at individually"....but then you lump Christians into a group and talk about toting "Christians" such as:

    (Government has changed religious laws for so called toting "Christians". "Christians" are allowed to divorce without Biblically accepted reasons (No Fault Divorce). "Christians" can re-marry even tho they have a living ex-spouse.)

  37. #37
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgirl Up View Post
    You really have no clue who I am or what I am about. Being bugged and annoyed by people is not hate. What makes hate is your attempt to make things seem different than what they are.

    Maybe it is not hate to you.....but you are doing the same thing you said bugs and annoys you about the toting Christians.

  38. #38
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Just because Christians believe that being gay/homosexual and that gay marriages are wrong and sinful...doesn't mean that they hate the person that is claiming to be gay.

    You can hate the sin and still love the person.

    God hates all sin but loves us that he has created.

    Again that is lumping Christians into your idea of a toting Christian that hates others....and it is not true.

    I am a Christian and I have several gay friends that I love dearly and pray for each day. I don't agree with their lifestyle and I'm sure there are things that they don't agree with me about. That doesn't mean we can't love each other and want the best for each other.

  39. #39

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirl up View Post
    some religions still do decide on who can marry. A priest, preacher, deacon - they can decide if they want to preform a ceremony; so, religion hasn't been taken out completely.

    With that said......

    Government has changed religious laws for so called toting "christians". "christians" are allowed to divorce without biblically accepted reasons (no fault divorce). "christians" can re-marry even tho they have a living ex-spouse.

    However, the only claim i've heard about why to not accept a same-sex marriage is because of biblical/religious reasons. Funny though, i don't recall "christians" throwing fits when our government changed laws to benefit them. Such a discriminating stance i think! If rick perry is such a "christian" man, why doesn't he remove texas from recognizing the no fault divorce? Why doesn't he place a law into effect that will keep couples from marrying if there is a living ex-spouse and not recognize common law couples? Do you honestly think that is something so called toting "christians" are going to stand for? I honestly think it would shut some people up! I know i wouldn't care to still be married to my ex-husband.

    Same-sex marriage ultimately doesn't have anything to do with religion. "christians" have proven that! It's merely about discrimination. We are not all one! We are not all equal!
    well said!

  40. #40

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Laws protecting marriage...does protect citizens. When you make marriage something that anyone or anything can do...it devalues it. It hurts our whole society. Not all laws are to protect individuals...but are sometimes to protect the society as a whole.

    As far as any religious marriage being recognized...what about people who are not relgious...what about people who do not believe in God...athiests...are they not allowed to get married then?
    Do you honestly believe this has not already happened? I mean look at how easy it is to get married today and either divorced or annuled tomorrow. If you believe two men or two women getting married would devalue marriage you're in denial!

  41. #41
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Yes "Marriage" has been going in a downward spiral and moral decline for years....I don't believe anyone is denying it.

    But, why would you want to do anything else to devalue it further?

    Texas T, first of all are you a Christian? Do you believe that being homosexual is a sin? (I'm not judging you are your lifestyle...that will be between you and your maker). I also do not think myself any better than anyone else that has committed sin, for I have sinned as well and will be punished.

    Yes, Christians do sin and do things that are not right. But just because some Christians do things that are not right....it does not make it right for themselves or anyone else. The sinning Christian will pay a price and will receive judgment in some form or fashion. They will not go unpunished.

  42. #42
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Julie...one thing to think about...marriage is not just a religious institution or a private affair. It is recognized socially. Studies prove that marriage is important in several ways for societies to function well. Children raised outside of intact marriages with both a father and mother...are at higher risks for poverty...crime...school failure...substance abuse...and child abuse.

    When the lines of what marriage is...and who it is between are blurred...then you see an increase in these problems. When it is jsut as acceptable to livce together with an agreement (contract for say 5 years) and then children are born of that live in relationship...who protects them from the social problems mentioned above that studies have shown to be risk factors? The tax payer or the "government" has to take responsibility. Same goes for same sex marriage...it is not an ideal situation for raising kids in...there is not a mom and dad in the picture....these children are also at higher risk....and who bares the burden...the society does...the tax payer...and that is who marriage laws really protect.

    Course...I feel the same way about divorce...it is wrong...sinful and destructive to both families, children and societies. It is long term economically hard on a society.
    Maybe I'm missing something in what you are saying (because I'm reading really fast), but I don't understand your point. The government is not "protecting" anyone from social problems now. Couples live together without benefit of marriage and raise children often. It seems it is becoming more prominent. I'm not sure why. I guess they don't want the expense of a divorce when it doesn't work out, or they don't want to make that much of a commitment in case something better comes along. If you are saying these types of things hurt society, then I agree with you, but there isn't anything the government is doing or can do about that. Many more children are being raised in one parent households than ever were before, but again, there's not much the government can do about that. Do you see the government somehow solving these problems?

  43. #43
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Laws protecting marriage...does protect citizens. When you make marriage something that anyone or anything can do...it devalues it. It hurts our whole society. Not all laws are to protect individuals...but are sometimes to protect the society as a whole.

    As far as any religious marriage being recognized...what about people who are not relgious...what about people who do not believe in God...athiests...are they not allowed to get married then?
    I don't understand the mindset of someone who doesn't believe in God. That's not a concept I can really wrap my mind around since I've never not belived. I assume that without a belief in God a wedding is not a religious ceremony. It would be more of an agreement between two people.. a contract. Therefore they can have the partnership agreement thing. The marriage I entered into is one of those God joined together and no man put asunder things. How can you let God join you together if you don't believe in God? I guess from my perspective the question is more about what marriage is. Is it just a legal contract between two people who can also make it a religious thing if they want to, or is it, like I believe, a religious ceremony that the government should stay out of.

  44. #44
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something in what you are saying (because I'm reading really fast), but I don't understand your point. The government is not "protecting" anyone from social problems now. Couples live together without benefit of marriage and raise children often. It seems it is becoming more prominent. I'm not sure why. I guess they don't want the expense of a divorce when it doesn't work out, or they don't want to make that much of a commitment in case something better comes along. If you are saying these types of things hurt society, then I agree with you, but there isn't anything the government is doing or can do about that. Many more children are being raised in one parent households than ever were before, but again, there's not much the government can do about that. Do you see the government somehow solving these problems?
    A lot of people don't get married because they would lose their "freebies".

  45. #45

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    I don't understand the mindset of someone who doesn't believe in God. That's not a concept I can really wrap my mind around since I've never not belived. I assume that without a belief in God a wedding is not a religious ceremony. It would be more of an agreement between two people.. a contract. Therefore they can have the partnership agreement thing. The marriage I entered into is one of those God joined together and no man put asunder things. How can you let God join you together if you don't believe in God? I guess from my perspective the question is more about what marriage is. Is it just a legal contract between two people who can also make it a religious thing if they want to, or is it, like I believe, a religious ceremony that the government should stay out of.
    So I gues under your's and Mally's eyes there are TWO types of marriage in America today;
    1. Religious - when in a church and or by a preist, preacher, etc.;
    2 - Contract - when performed by Justice of the Peace or other government official.

    So, are there two types of divorce? No. ALL marriages to be ended by those involved are done so through the court. The court acknowledges both types of marriages as one.
    But, what about common law marriage?? Where does it play in? Contract? No license involved. But the state of Texas acknowledges this type also. So in Texas we now have three types of marriage! But one type of divorce.

  46. #46
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something in what you are saying (because I'm reading really fast), but I don't understand your point. The government is not "protecting" anyone from social problems now. Couples live together without benefit of marriage and raise children often. It seems it is becoming more prominent. I'm not sure why. I guess they don't want the expense of a divorce when it doesn't work out, or they don't want to make that much of a commitment in case something better comes along. If you are saying these types of things hurt society, then I agree with you, but there isn't anything the government is doing or can do about that. Many more children are being raised in one parent households than ever were before, but again, there's not much the government can do about that. Do you see the government somehow solving these problems?
    I believe the government can stop doing things that exacerbate the problem. Divorce should not be so easy. Unwed mothers should not get more tax credits than married ones. Medicaid policies should change...tax payers should not keep paying for women to have one baby after another...tanf programs should also be reduced...our government needs to quit making it profitable for babies to be born outside the bounds of marriage.

    My point was...going down a path the makes these social problems worse...is wrong. I am not saying the government can fix it all....I am saying that there is some need for government regulation to prevent social ills that translate into economic problems etc.

  47. #47
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
    So I gues under your's and Mally's eyes there are TWO types of marriage in America today;
    1. Religious - when in a church and or by a preist, preacher, etc.;
    2 - Contract - when performed by Justice of the Peace or other government official.

    So, are there two types of divorce? No. ALL marriages to be ended by those involved are done so through the court. The court acknowledges both types of marriages as one.
    But, what about common law marriage?? Where does it play in? Contract? No license involved. But the state of Texas acknowledges this type also. So in Texas we now have three types of marriage! But one type of divorce.
    I disagree that there are two types of marriage. When I got married, even though we were married in a church, we still had to go to the courthouse to get a marriage license and after the ceremony the document was signed by the witnesses and the preacher and filed at the courthouse.

  48. #48

    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBritches View Post
    I disagree that there are two types of marriage. When I got married, even though we were married in a church, we still had to go to the courthouse to get a marriage license and after the ceremony the document was signed by the witnesses and the preacher and filed at the courthouse.
    But what about those married in the courthouse by a judge???? No church, no preacher, nothing religious. Some may or may not use the Bible for the ceremony.
    There are different types. 1. Church=Religious. 2. Courthouse=Civil/Government. 3. Common Law=acknowledged by the Texas Government.

  49. #49
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
    But what about those married in the courthouse by a judge???? No church, no preacher, nothing religious. Some may or may not use the Bible for the ceremony.
    There are different types. 1. Church=Religious. 2. Courthouse=Civil/Government. 3. Common Law=acknowledged by the Texas Government.
    They still have to have the same marriage license secured through their local government. The only difference is who performs the ceremony that binds the marriage contract.

  50. #50
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Mally View Post
    Governments make changes....and if those changes do not conform with biblical principals...that doesn't make all Christians sinning.

    Your comment about no fault divorce...when the bible says that for someone to divorce and remarry except for the cause of adultery...that it is a sin. Just because the Government allows for that...doesn't make me a sinner. The sin is the same...those that divorce without biblical cause and remarry are the sinners...not all Christians.

    That is the same with Abortion. Abortion is wrong...it is murder. The government allows it. I don't like it...I don't vote for people who support it...but because it is allowed...doesn't make me a sinner....or any other Christian. Those that are sinner...whether they be Christian or not..are those that support it...those that work in the industry...those that vote for it...and those that do it or have it done.


    We are ALL sinners, and one sin is no worse than another. As soon as we all grasp that concept, maybe all these ludicrous ideas and laws will be reversed. Having said that, I don't agree with same-sex relationships/marriages, because, IMO, it is not the way we were made. I could go on for hours about the "whys", but that's all I'm going to say about it.

  51. #51
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    Re: Texas AG Battles Gay Couple's Divorce

    Putting that in yellow makes it hard to read.

    I agree we are all sinners. Everyone messes up...that was not the point of what I was saying. It is in reference to what someone else said...the made it appear she was calling all Christians sinners based only on the fact that our government allows divorce and some Christians sin in participating. Someone else getting a divorce is not going to make me sin. That was my point.

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