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Thread: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

  1. #1
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    Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    Wasting no time, the Eastland School District announced it will build a "safe room" adjacent to Siebert Elementary. This will be able to accomodate the students, as well as the residents within 1/4 mile.

    When did this become the responsibility of the schools?

    If we're to have emergency shelters, shouldn't they be provided by the city or county?

    The schools really need to concentrate on education. For a change.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    Wasting no time, the Eastland School District announced it will build a "safe room" adjacent to Siebert Elementary. This will be able to accomodate the students, as well as the residents within 1/4 mile.

    When did this become the responsibility of the schools?

    If we're to have emergency shelters, shouldn't they be provided by the city or county?

    The schools really need to concentrate on education. For a change.
    This is being paid for by a grant. The school district will not be out any money.

  3. #3
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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    The concrete safe room project will cost $1.9 million, and the City of Eastland, working hand-in-hand with Eastland ISD, applied for and was awarded a $1.4 million grant through the FEMA Pre-Disaster Mitigation (PDM) program. This had nothing to do with the recent hike in property valuations, as we made application for the grant over two years ago when I was Emergency Management Coordinator for the City.

    I think it's great that our school district is spending $500,000 for a $1.9 million facility that will keep our kids safe from natural disasters like the tornadoes that have destroyed several schools in the past few years!

    Way to go, EISD!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    The concrete safe room project will cost $1.9 million, and the City of Eastland, working hand-in-hand with Eastland ISD, applied for and was awarded a $1.4 million grant through the FEMA Pre-Disaster Mitigation (PDM) program. This had nothing to do with the recent hike in property valuations, as we made application for the grant over two years ago when I was Emergency Management Coordinator for the City.

    I think it's great that our school district is spending $500,000 for a $1.9 million facility that will keep our kids safe from natural disasters like the tornadoes that have destroyed several schools in the past few years!

    Way to go, EISD!
    I guess I misinterpreted what I read from Rebecca Hallmark. She said "We are being funded to build a new elementary gym/storm shelter from a grant!!!" I took that to mean it was being completely paid for by the grant. I see in a write up about it that it will fund 75% of the project. That ain't bad at all.

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    Will the doors have locks on the outside?
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    Harper Valley PTA

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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraculousMutha View Post
    Will the doors have locks on the outside?

    only when you inside

  7. #7
    Does it come with snakes and black mold, or is that an add-on?
    Murphy was an optimist!

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    Remember: there are two factors involved in figuring your property taxes.

    1. the value of the property
    2. the tax rate

    The value of the property is divided by 100, then multiplied by the tax rate to figure your property taxes. The taxes can remain the same if one is increased and the other is decreased.

    Thanks to our new chief appraiser for the well written and informative article in the local paper, and to HVO for his articles of concern relating to the appraisal increases.

    County valuations have always been low, with a higher taxing rate to compensate.
    Now the state wants all counties to appraise properties the same, at market value.

    To keep property taxes about the same as before, the tax rate should be lowered, since the property taxes are figured by multiplying the appraised value/100 x the tax rate.

    According to the chief appraiser's article, the appraisal process should be completed by the end of this month. Then the hearings for tax rates will last from August through September 15.

    From the article: "Citizens are allowed and encouraged to attend their budget hearings and offer public comment on the setting of the tax rate."

    Contact your officials and make certain the tax rates are lowered, otherwise the county, schools, and cities will have a windfall of your cash to waste on more new suburbans.

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    First, the school district was the primary beneficiary of the last round of re-appraisals, and will similarly benefit from the current round.

    Second, I can't believe that there isn't some educational opportunity that will go lacking as a result of diverting $500,000 into a storm shelter. Like, maybe a vocational program so the grads have some sort of skill to enable them to earn a living.

    Third, as Mutha has pointed out before, grant money isn't manna from heaven. It comes from you and me in the form of taxes. We profess concern about the budget shortfalls while simultaneously grabbing money from the pot.

    Fourth, how in the world does building what has been described as a community shelter become the responsibility of the school district?

    In just a couple of years, we've gone from threats of laying off teachers and staff due to budget shortfalls to having a spare half million laying around to fund this?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    Wasting no time, the Eastland School District announced it will build a "safe room" adjacent to Siebert Elementary. This will be able to accomodate the students, as well as the residents within 1/4 mile.

    When did this become the responsibility of the schools?

    If we're to have emergency shelters, shouldn't they be provided by the city or county?

    The schools really need to concentrate on education. For a change.
    When the children are in school, it's the responsibility of faculty of the school to TRY to keep them safe. I don't begrudge anybody having an emergency shelter. It's just that many people I don't have to worry bout.
    Don't ask the Lord to guide your footsteps if you're not willing to move your feet.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    First, the school district was the primary beneficiary of the last round of re-appraisals, and will similarly benefit from the current round.

    Second, I can't believe that there isn't some educational opportunity that will go lacking as a result of diverting $500,000 into a storm shelter. Like, maybe a vocational program so the grads have some sort of skill to enable them to earn a living.

    Third, as Mutha has pointed out before, grant money isn't manna from heaven. It comes from you and me in the form of taxes. We profess concern about the budget shortfalls while simultaneously grabbing money from the pot.

    Fourth, how in the world does building what has been described as a community shelter become the responsibility of the school district?

    In just a couple of years, we've gone from threats of laying off teachers and staff due to budget shortfalls to having a spare half million laying around to fund this?
    When the school gets more money from property taxes, doesn't the State cut their funding on that end?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    ...Second, I can't believe that there isn't some educational opportunity that will go lacking as a result of diverting $500,000 into a storm shelter. Like, maybe a vocational program so the grads have some sort of skill to enable them to earn a living.
    You could buy 1253 iPad 2's for $500,000. That is something that could be used everyday... I think that would be enough for every student, with plenty left over for teachers....
    - a little sarcasm, a little truth, - you decide.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    When the school gets more money from property taxes, doesn't the State cut their funding on that end?
    Does it really make a difference which bucket of tax payer money the half million dollars comes from? It is still half a million dollars funded with tax dollars. The 1.4 million is yet another bucket of tax dollars. What part of broke does our country not understand? Storm shelters are a good thing, but is it more important than paying our bills?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Does it really make a difference which bucket of tax payer money the half million dollars comes from? It is still half a million dollars funded with tax dollars. The 1.4 million is yet another bucket of tax dollars. What part of broke does our country not understand? Storm shelters are a good thing, but is it more important than paying our bills?
    I figure the grants are earmarked for whatever they are going to be earmarked for. If someone's going to get it, why not Eastland?

  15. #15
    That's what got us where we are today.

    "...democracy must be more than what the majority insists upon."
    Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope

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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    Is it good for Eastland? Yes, it's good for Eastland. 'Nuff said!

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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    Quote Originally Posted by thutmose View Post
    You could buy 1253 iPad 2's for $500,000. That is something that could be used everyday... I think that would be enough for every student, with plenty left over for teachers....
    The iPads would last for two, maybe three years and would benefit 1253 students. The shelter will be here 50 years or more and will benefit 15,000 students or more. Which is the more sensible use of the money? Oh, and did anyone happen to mention that the "shelter" is actually a multi-purpose building that will be used every day?

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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Does it really make a difference which bucket of tax payer money the half million dollars comes from? It is still half a million dollars funded with tax dollars. The 1.4 million is yet another bucket of tax dollars. What part of broke does our country not understand? Storm shelters are a good thing, but is it more important than paying our bills?
    We can put the money to good use here in Eastland, or they can send it to Detroit. Your choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Is it good for Eastland? Yes, it's good for Eastland. 'Nuff said!
    Is this the best, highest use of a half million dollars? 'Nuff said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    The iPads would last for two, maybe three years and would benefit 1253 students. The shelter will be here 50 years or more and will benefit 15,000 students or more. Which is the more sensible use of the money? Oh, and did anyone happen to mention that the "shelter" is actually a multi-purpose building that will be used every day?
    I think you could say the same thing about textbooks.

    "Multi-Purpose"? I heard it would double as a gymnasium. With only 3 available, I guess we have a screaming need for another.

    Why school funds? Why is it being represented as being available to everyone within 1/4 mile radius? Is this a city shelter? If so, what about the taxpayers outside that radius?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    We can put the money to good use here in Eastland, or they can send it to Detroit. Your choice.
    Was that the choice?

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    I got no rat in this race. But until you ride out one tornado in a eighteen wheeler and see every thing up close & dirty. You will have keen insight into the purpose and use of storm shelters.
    Believe me it just takes one experience, it is a life altering train of thought.
    Every time you see a dark cloud for years, you will want to hide under you mamas gown tail.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    I got no rat in this race. But until you ride out one tornado in a eighteen wheeler and see every thing up close & dirty. You will have keen insight into the purpose and use of storm shelters.
    Believe me it just takes one experience, it is a life altering train of thought.
    Every time you see a dark cloud for years, you will want to hide under you mamas gown tail.
    Since you were on the road, I don't think a storm shelter would have done you much good, unless you were within a 1/4 mile radius of one. Since earmarked money must not count towards our debt, we should see if our elected elites will earmark money to build a shelter every 1/2 mile along every highway in the US. Texas has so many miles of highway, it would be good for Texas. Right? Why not let Texas have it rather than sending fighter jets to our enemies? We will never become "unbroke" until we realize there is no money tree that makes special money for grants and other giveaways.

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    Is there ANYTHING that our government does that is RIGHT? Or do we have to find fault with EVERYTHING that is government related? I think we need to come to grips with the fact that we can't please ALL the people ALL the time.

    This grant money was going to be expended (whether we agree with that or not), and Eastland got it. Not the ideal situation, but better than other options.

    I'm very happy that our kids will have the option to move to a storm-safe shelter when needed, instead of "duck and cover" under their desks. If, during the next 50 years, it saves just one child's life, will it be worth the expenditure? (Uh, that would be YES!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    Was that the choice?
    What do you think? The money was there, and someone was going to use it. Like it or not, that's the way it is. Why not use it in Eastland?

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    On the subject of the gym... Haven't I heard that there are some problems with that elementary school gym? I'm just guessing here, but I would think that this gym might replace the current elementary school gym.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    I'm very happy that our kids will have the option to move to a storm-safe shelter when needed, instead of "duck and cover" under their desks. If, during the next 50 years, it saves just one child's life, will it be worth the expenditure? (Uh, that would be YES!)
    And there's part of the problem with being a school district "responsibility". It will be available provided the storm occurs while school is in session. Nights, weekends, holidays and summer break I bet the place will be locked up like Ft Knox. School is actually in session about 15% of the year.

    Here's the Mission Statement for the school district:

    Eastland ISD is a premier learning center providing a nurturing, comprehensive, educational environment utilizing state-of-the-art facilities that inspire community pride. Our exceptional, motivated staff, in partnership with parents and the community, promotes opportunities for individuals to develop into critical thinkers, proficient writers, effective communicators and analytical problem solvers prepared for life as productive citizens.
    I'm missing the part about Civil Defense.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Is there ANYTHING that our government does that is RIGHT? Or do we have to find fault with EVERYTHING that is government related?
    Mosquitoes have a higher approval rating than Congress these days, so I would have to answer the first question "no". I would have to answer "no" to the second question also.

    With approval ratings so low, how come so many Representatives and Senators get re-elected? If a Senator brings the bacon home to his/her state everyone in that state is excited and congratulate the senator on a job well done, by voting them back into office. The same thing applies to a representative bringing the bacon home to his/her district. "Money well spent", they say. "If someone was going to get the money, it might as well be us." The rest of the states and districts may very well look at the same expenditure as "wasteful spending" or "good cause, but we really can't afford it".

    When all 535 members of Congress want to bring more dollars back home than is paid in, it leaves $0.00 to run the Federal Government. Households, school districts, cities, counties, and states have to live within their means. Why should we expect anything less from our federal government?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    And there's part of the problem with being a school district "responsibility". It will be available provided the storm occurs while school is in session. Nights, weekends, holidays and summer break I bet the place will be locked up like Ft Knox. School is actually in session about 15% of the year.

    Here's the Mission Statement for the school district:



    I'm missing the part about Civil Defense.
    Eastland have a Red Cross chapter?
    It is a normal procedure for Red Cross to use School buildings for disaster relief.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    Eastland have a Red Cross chapter?
    It is a normal procedure for Red Cross to use School buildings for disaster relief.
    The school and several churches have buildings that are used for disaster relief. During icy road conditions, when motels are full, they open their doors for stranded motorists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    Eastland have a Red Cross chapter?
    It is a normal procedure for Red Cross to use School buildings for disaster relief.
    It's a normal procedure for Mud Swallows to nest under bridges. But, that's not what we're talking about, is it?

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    Most Cities use school buildings, because of the heavy demands of people needing shelter.
    But I guess Eastland has not got with the program.
    It's a normal procedure for Mud Swallows to nest under bridges. But, that's not what we're talking about, is it?
    No I am not talking about Swallows, they are called Mud Martins.
    Last edited by mingus108; 07-31-2013 at 10:49 PM.

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    While I'm not in favor of "the money's there why not give it to me" line of thought because it part of the attitude that's gotten the country into this debt, I do believe that once a tornado hit a school and children died that any school without a storm shelter faces significant risk of a law suit going forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Since you were on the road, I don't think a storm shelter would have done you much good, unless you were within a 1/4 mile radius of one. Since earmarked money must not count towards our debt, we should see if our elected elites will earmark money to build a shelter every 1/2 mile along every highway in the US. Texas has so many miles of highway, it would be good for Texas. Right? Why not let Texas have it rather than sending fighter jets to our enemies? We will never become "unbroke" until we realize there is no money tree that makes special money for grants and other giveaways.
    At the time I would have given my last dollar for a place of shelter. But the comparison you are making is very poor.
    You people have the chance to save children from the horrors of a tornado in Eastland but are bitching about one third of the cost.
    You did not put up much of a fight at the full cost of a new ladder truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    And there's part of the problem with being a school district "responsibility". It will be available provided the storm occurs while school is in session. Nights, weekends, holidays and summer break I bet the place will be locked up like Ft Knox. School is actually in session about 15% of the year.

    Here's the Mission Statement for the school district:



    I'm missing the part about Civil Defense.
    id a bet that grant says it has to be opened anytime a storm comes up in the area whether during school or midnight on saturday

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    At the time I would have given my last dollar for a place of shelter. But the comparison you are making is very poor.
    You people have the chance to save children from the horrors of a tornado in Eastland but are bitching about one third of the cost.
    You did not put up much of a fight at the full cost of a new ladder truck.
    I was against the purchase of a ladder truck, new or used. May not have posted much about it at the time due to trying to earn enough income to pay my taxes. I have posted many times about the fire departments in Eastland County. Might have been before you joined. I am not against shelters, I'm against spending money that is adding to our national debt. Could a shelter be built for the $400k EISD is paying that would adequately protect the children, without the $1.4 million grant? I'm tired of the concept that "as long as it is someone else's money, it doesn't matter." I seldom buy what I want, I buy what I can afford. States need to do the same, as long as they are standing in line for "free government grants", our country's debt will continue to spiral out of control. Shelters are good. I repeat, shelters are good.

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    For a fact we seem to be spoiling ourselves into bankruptcy in the U.S.. It is good to have the shelter, but, in the scheme of things at some point some community or group will have to say enough is enough. We will not be the one's that do that. In the past I have always thought it does not hurt to help everyone that needs help, due the abuse of the aid programs I am no longer that sympathetic. We gotta loose this big government. Dave is right but I still would like to have the shelter for those that live in town.

  38. #38
    Shelters are good. Shelters are good. Shelters are good.

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    I get it that it is a good thing to secure a grant for 1.4 million dollars. The problem for me is that the school had to put up 25% of their (our tax dollars) money to get that 1.4 million or roughly $500,000 dollars. The 1.4 mil comes indirectly from federal taxes I pay, and the $500,000 comes directly from my local school taxes. $500,000 is approximately 5% of the revenue that EISD gets from state and local revenues. Who in their right mind commits 5% of their yearly budget to match a grant. WHO?

    Now I could be uninformed, but somebody let me know if this is something the school has to pay in one budget year or over a couple of years.

    Bottom line for me is this. Some of that $500,000 dollars is tax money I paid. I don't know if the board members that voted for this thought it would actually happen, but it has. Somehow, they are going to have to cut spending - 5% - to pay this bill. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I will never again vote for the current members on the EISD school board, because this is an outrage.

    and by the way, littlebritches, I don't think a school can be sued (unless it involves a motor vehicle), much less for an Act of God.

    You want to keep your children safe? Hit your knees and pray to (insert your own term here) that they stay protected.
    Last edited by thutmose; 08-01-2013 at 08:23 PM. Reason: percent wrong

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBritches View Post
    I do believe that once a tornado hit a school and children died that any school without a storm shelter faces significant risk of a law suit going forward.
    Cite?
    Last edited by rme; 08-01-2013 at 09:22 PM. Reason: colors work when they want to

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    Quote Originally Posted by homosapian View Post
    id a bet that grant says it has to be opened anytime a storm comes up in the area whether during school or midnight on saturday
    Cecil could verify this, but I doubt your understanding is correct. Since it's actually a gym, I bet it's locked down tight.

    Cecil?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy JP View Post
    Dave is right but I still would like to have the shelter for those that live in town.
    What about those who live beyond the 1/4 mile radius? Or those who pay school taxes, but live outside the city?

    Why is storm sheltering the school district's responsibility? Why use funds dedicated to education for this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    What about those who live beyond the 1/4 mile radius? Or those who pay school taxes, but live outside the city?

    Why is storm sheltering the school district's responsibility? Why use funds dedicated to education for this?
    If you intend to build a new gym, a new storm shelter could be added in so much cheaper. A new gym + shelter at one third the cost. The grants do not cover a new gym alone, I am sure.

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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    May I ask why all of you continue to pay your Senator's salary? Why do you continue to waste taxpayer dollars on something that provides absolutely no benefit whatsoever? Most of you don't like our President, yet we keep on paying him to do a lousy job. Most of us disagree with the notion of giving foreign aid to those who want to see us die, but we keep on doing it. You and I pay BILLIONS of dollars, and get NOTHING in return, but you raise all kinds of ruckus when our school district can build a new gymnasium for one-fourth the normal cost!

    And then there is the ADDED benefit of that building also serving as a safe-room, not only for our children, but a portion of our community, as well. Why not also for taxpayers that live outside the 1/4 mile radius? Stop and think about that for a moment. A quarter of a mile is roughly 1320 feet...walking distance! What's the message that is repeated over and over by safety experts and emergency management personnel when a tornado is in the area? It is TAKE COVER AND DO NOT GET INTO YOUR CAR!!! If you live outside of town and are in the vicinity of the shelter when a tornado hits, do you think they are going to turn you away?? Let's get real here! Shelters are a good thing. THIS shelter is a good thing!

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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    What about those who live beyond the 1/4 mile radius? Or those who pay school taxes, but live outside the city?

    Why is storm sheltering the school district's responsibility? Why use funds dedicated to education for this?
    Are you saying that physical education is not education?

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by mingus108 View Post
    If you intend to build a new gym, a new storm shelter could be added in so much cheaper. A new gym + shelter at one third the cost. The grants do not cover a new gym alone, I am sure.
    What is wrong with what we have? Doing nothing =no federal grant + not spending $500k of local tax dollars. How have we managed to escape disaster in the last 50 years? Are we living in the (if you build it, it will come) world of having to provide protection from EVERYTHING for EVERYONE? I suspect that if the issue were to have EISD pay $1.9 million dollars for a shelter, 98% of the people paying EISD taxes would not approve. Why is it okay if 75% is (the nobody pays) federal grant money? If Bill Gates agrees to pay for the shelter with no cost to federal, state or local tax payers, I will be glad to support the building of this shelter.

    Shelters are good.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    May I ask why all of you continue to pay your Senator's salary?
    The Constitution requires it.
    Why do you continue to waste taxpayer dollars on something that provides absolutely no benefit whatsoever?

    We cannot control this, the elected elite make those decisions.
    Most of you don't like our President, yet we keep on paying him to do a lousy job.
    Unless he is impeached, the Constitution requires it.
    Most of us disagree with the notion of giving foreign aid to those who want to see us die, but we keep on doing it.
    Again, mosquitoes have a higher approval rating than Congress. I have opined why the uninformed voters continue to re-elect them.
    You and I pay BILLIONS of dollars, and get NOTHING in return, but you raise all kinds of ruckus when our school district can build a new gymnasium for one-fourth the normal cost!
    Who is paying the other 75%? NUFF SAID

    And then there is the ADDED benefit of that building also serving as a safe-room, not only for our children, but a portion of our community, as well. Why not also for taxpayers that live outside the 1/4 mile radius.
    Not worth a comment.
    Stop and think about that for a moment. A quarter of a mile is roughly 1320 feet...walking distance! What's the message that is repeated over and over by safety experts and emergency management personnel when a tornado is in the area? It is TAKE COVER AND DO NOT GET INTO YOUR CAR!!! If you live outside of town and are in the vicinity of the shelter when a tornado hits, do you think they are going to turn you away?? Let's get real here!
    Finally, we agree!
    Shelters are a good
    Again, we agree!
    thing. THIS shelter is a good thing.
    Good idea, but not worth selling our souls to the "no one pays for it federal grant."
    Just exercising my 1st amendment right, while we still have it. We can stand up to a tyrannical government, or we can sell our liberty to them.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    Cite?
    "I do believe... " meaning that is my opinion and not in need of a cite.

    But my opinion is coming from personal experience and observation of the human condition today.

    I worked for lawyers that represented the Texas Association of School Boards insurer. The shelves were full of law suits. Some had merit but a lot did not. It still costs a ton of money to engage a lawyer and go through the initial discovery phase to prove a claim is without merit.

    Through obversation, people will sue for just about anything today.

  49. #49
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    Yes, we, the residents of Eastland, can stand up to tyrannical government and refuse to partake of the "no one pays for it federal grant". But until we convince our representatives in Washington to stand up FOR us, we are, pardon the expression, spraying liquid human waste into the wind. A lofty goal, indeed!

    We can set an example for the rest of the country, right?

    And, yes, I know that payment to the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of our government is required by the Constitution. But my point is that we are not doing ANYTHING on the national level to solve our financial and political woes, so why expect a small west Texas town to take on the task? Sure, we can deprive our residents of the safety of a shelter/gymnasium by refusing to take the money. That's a small step in the right direction, right? Again, a lofty goal, indeed!

    Can we expect Detroit or Chicago or Los Angeles or New York City to adopt our ideals and also refuse to take grant money? Don't hold your breath!

    And yes, I understand WHO is paying the other 75%. If you take $1.4 million and divide it among 100,000,000 taxpayers, you'll find that your portion of that 75% is about 1.4 cents. So is mine, so now we've invested our 3-cents worth. Personally, I prefer to spend my cent and a half in Eastland instead of sending it to Detroit or elsewhere.
    Last edited by Cecil; 08-02-2013 at 07:56 AM.

  50. #50
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    For some reason, I can see the biggest deadliest tornado of all times sailing straight down tornado alley from Carbon headed for Eastland, and turning all the fancy homes into toothpicks. People stand beating on the locked doors of the new storm shelter helpless, waiting for the janitor with the keys who will never come and decided to ride the storm out under his own bed.
    Well Cecil thanks for trying.
    Last edited by MiraculousMutha; 08-02-2013 at 11:08 AM.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraculousMutha View Post
    For some reason, I can see the biggest deadliest tornado of all times sailing straight down tornado alley from Carbon headed for Eastland, and turning all the fancy homes into toothpicks. People stand beating on the locked doors of the new storm shelter helpless, waiting for the janitor with the keys who will never come and decided to ride the storm out under his own bed.
    Well Cecil thanks for trying.
    You know for some reason I see you in Purgatory waiting for a long time before you leave.

  52. #52
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    That's okay just as long as you aren't there.

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    Well, I should be long gone by the time you get there.

  54. #54
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    You know children who don't study their lessons get held back a year.
    Will you be back as a cotton chopper or a toilet scrubber?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiraculousMutha View Post
    You know children who don't study their lessons get held back a year.
    Will you be back as a cotton chopper or a toilet scrubber?
    I think you misunderstand Purgatory.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    And yes, I understand WHO is paying the other 75%. If you take $1.4 million and divide it among 100,000,000 taxpayers, you'll find that your portion of that 75% is about 1.4 cents. So is mine, so now we've invested our 3-cents worth.
    If only this were true. The federal government runs a deficit. That's not your money and my money, it's borrowed money. And, if our school district is sitting on $500K of available funds, they are over-taxing us.

    By the way, in none of the news articles or tv pieces is this referred to as anything other than a shelter.

  57. #57
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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    I wonder how much interest the story would generate if the headline read, "Elementary school gets a new gymnasium"...zzzzzzzzz

  58. #58
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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    ...That's not your money and my money, it's borrowed money. ...
    Sounds kinda like "You didn't build that."

    When most of us buy a new house, I guess it's not really our house because it‘s borrowed money. And the payments are made by ... who?

  59. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Sounds kinda like "You didn't build that."

    When most of us buy a new house, I guess it's not really our house because it‘s borrowed money. And the payments are made by ... who?
    When most of us buy a new house or car, we buy one we can afford the payments on.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Sounds kinda like "You didn't build that."

    When most of us buy a new house, I guess it's not really our house because it‘s borrowed money. And the payments are made by ... who?
    Well, it's more like "You didn't pay for that", which was the thrust of the previous post.

    In any case, if I spend more than I earn, and can't make the payments, the bank comes and takes my house away from me. The people funding this shelter are in that condition. Spending more than they take in.

    With the possible exception of the school district, which seems to be awash in funds

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Sounds kinda like "You didn't build that."

    When most of us buy a new house, I guess it's not really our house because it‘s borrowed money. And the payments are made by ... who?
    Well, it's more like "You didn't pay for that", which was the thrust of your previous post.

    In any case, if I spend more than I earn, and can't make the payments, the bank comes and takes my house away from me. The people funding this shelter are in that condition. Spending more than they take in.

    With the possible exception of the school district, which seems to be awash in funds

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    Yes, but wasn't it nice of the folks from all over the country to pick up the other 75% instead of it having to come from local folks?

  63. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Yes, but wasn't it nice of the folks from all over the country to pick up the other 75% instead of it having to come from local folks?
    How nice can the US taxpayers be? We have almost $17 trillion of nice on the books now. I have no problem with grants and low interest loans from a government that can afford to be nice. Ours can no longer afford it. We should stop by not being nice to our enemies, but that alone is not enough. For the record, I agree with Mutha on the federal debt needs to be paid down/off. That really hurt my fingers.

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    Re: Let's spend that revenue from the new valuations

    Now and then, Mutha plucks a pearl from the swamp.

  65. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Now and then, Mutha plucks a pearl from the swamp.
    Crow doesn't taste good, but I will eat it.

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    The older it gets, the worse the taste.
    More pearls forthcoming.

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    The pearls are so rare but I guess that's why they are so valuable.

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    It's gonna be a DOME!!!!!

    In the news: "FEMA Awards $1.4 PDM Grant for a Community Safe Room in Eastland, TX"

    ABC Domes (American Business Continuity Domes) will be working to provide The City of Eastland and Eastland ISD the planet's strongest, most disaster resistant, sustainable, durable and economical FEMA 361 Safe Room* available as we have done for many FEMA grant recipients throughout Texas and Oklahoma.

    The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) has awarded $1.4 million to the state of Texas for the construction of a community safe room in the city of Eastland. The dual-purpose, 11,900 square feet, concrete community safe room will be located at Siebert Elementary. It will be designed to protect citizens who live within a quarter-mile of the site and are at high risk for high wind and tornado events.

    A safe room is a hardened structure specifically designed to meet FEMA’s criteria and provide “near-absolute protection” in extreme weather events.



  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    And yes, I understand WHO is paying the other 75%. If you take $1.4 million and divide it among 100,000,000 taxpayers, you'll find that your portion of that 75% is about 1.4 cents. So is mine, so now we've invested our 3-cents worth. Personally, I prefer to spend my cent and a half in Eastland instead of sending it to Detroit or elsewhere.
    You said it. Out of 314,000,000 people in the United States, 100,000,000 are paying taxes. As one of the 100,000,000 I am getting tired of paying taxes for the other 214,000,000. But get real, the portion of THIS grant might only be 3 cents, but when you add up all of the grants, what is that costing the 1/3 of citizens that pay taxes.

    I understand the power the dollar has in Washington. And you are correct that we are "pissing in the wind" to try and change that.

    But I also understand that to start the change we must start with our local governments. Once the 100,000,000 taxpayer's start doing that, we might have a chance.

    Now I certainly understand the defense of your position. You see federal and local dollars going to a "good cause" - the safety of our children. If those dollars are out there to be had by applying for a grant, why not? That, my friend is the trap...

    I only have one other question.

    Did you, Cecil Funderburg, receive any financial compensation, directly or indirectly, for helping secure this grant? Or did you just present H2O as the grant writers?

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    I suppose that question, Dwayne Dove, was directed to me, however, you left the "h" off the end of my name. It's "Funderburgh". And the question itself, is designed to cast questions on my integrity. That's a common tactic when someone has a very weak point in a debate... attack the credibility of the debater.

    Although the question doesn't deserve an answer, I'll answer it anyway. No, and no. My salary with the City of Eastland was not affected one way or the other with regard to this grant. My defense of the grant for the safe room is not motivated by past or present finances, but simply by what's right and what's not right.

    This safe room hasn't cost you one penny more than you would have normally paid in taxes even if we did not get the safe room, so why not build a safe room?

    And, just as a side note, you may be interested to know that the average family size in the United States is 2.6 persons. In my calculations, I rounded that to 3 persons per family. With a population of around 300,000,000 people, that means there are 100,000,000 families or households that pay taxes. Are you advocating the taxation of each individual, including children in the United States? I'm not!
    Last edited by Cecil; 08-07-2013 at 08:05 AM.

  71. #71
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    mr cecil i think your just with these peoples

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    Maybe so

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    I should just let this die, but I disagree that I am debating a weak point.

    First let me apologize for the math. I am not advocating the taxation of each individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    I suppose that question, Dwayne Dove, was directed to me, however, you left the "h" off the end of my name. It's "Funderburgh".
    Sorry about that, not intentional, should have just used "Cecil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    And the question itself, is designed to cast questions on my integrity. That's a common tactic when someone has a very weak point in a debate... attack the credibility of the debater.
    The question was not "designed to cast questions" on your integrity. You are a very upstanding citizen that our community has benefited from for having served as you have. You mentioned in an earlier post - "as we made application for the grant over two years ago when I was Emergency Management Coordinator for the City". I was just curious that if you helped write the grant if you received any compensation for doing so. Would not be anything wrong with that, most grants include some sort of compensation for those involved. I just wanted to be clear on your motivation for defending your position.

    I apologize if my post mislead anyone. The main point I was trying to make was in the 4th paragraph. So I will copy it here.

    "Now I certainly understand the defense of your position. You see federal and local dollars going to a "good cause" - the safety of our children. If those dollars are out there to be had by applying for a grant, why not? That, my friend is the trap..."

    And I will add to that. How many dollars will it take to make absolutely everybody safe from any type of accident or disaster? It is impossible to protect everybody from everything.

    Another quote from one of my previous posts in this thread. "You want to keep your children safe? Hit your knees and pray to (insert your own term here) that they stay protected."

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by thutmose View Post
    I should just let this die, but I disagree that I am debating a weak point.

    First let me apologize for the math. I am not advocating the taxation of each individual.



    Sorry about that, not intentional, should have just used "Cecil"



    The question was not "designed to cast questions" on your integrity. You are a very upstanding citizen that our community has benefited from for having served as you have. You mentioned in an earlier post - "as we made application for the grant over two years ago when I was Emergency Management Coordinator for the City". I was just curious that if you helped write the grant if you received any compensation for doing so. Would not be anything wrong with that, most grants include some sort of compensation for those involved. I just wanted to be clear on your motivation for defending your position.

    I apologize if my post mislead anyone. The main point I was trying to make was in the 4th paragraph. So I will copy it here.

    "Now I certainly understand the defense of your position. You see federal and local dollars going to a "good cause" - the safety of our children. If those dollars are out there to be had by applying for a grant, why not? That, my friend is the trap..."

    And I will add to that. How many dollars will it take to make absolutely everybody safe from any type of accident or disaster? It is impossible to protect everybody from everything.

    Another quote from one of my previous posts in this thread. "You want to keep your children safe? Hit your knees and pray to (insert your own term here) that they stay protected."
    so you dont think maybe the saferoom is an answer to those prayers

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    And just to add this and why I do not think I am defending a weak position. I am trying to stand up for my grand kids. I now have 3 and the oldest is almost 6. We cannot saddle them with the debt to GDP ratio our generation has created.

    When I was 6 the national debt was $320 billion, and the GDP was $793 billion for a Debt to GDP ratio of 40%. For my grand kids, at the end of 2012 the national debt was $16,066 billion (or as you normally hear it 16 trillion), and the GDP was $15,776 (or 15 trillion), and the Debt to GDP ratio was 102%. Now we have certainly had years where the Debt to GDP was at a higher percentage. Think end of WWII. But it has been steadily increasing since the 1980's. http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebt...bt-by-Year.htm

    Now I understand that is the big picture, but until we start standing up at the local level, and making our local elected officials aware that we, the local citizens, are watching how they are spending our local tax dollars, then the local elected officials might start paying attention.

    GET IT?

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by homosapian View Post
    so you dont think maybe the saferoom is an answer to those prayers
    Point taken.

    However, if I pray for my children and grand kids to be protected and the supreme being I pray to sends me a safe room, I will read between the lines...

  77. #77
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    I reiterate... "This safe room hasn't cost you one penny more than you would have normally paid in taxes even if we did not get the safe room, so why not build a safe room?"

    Which is the problem:
    1. That taxpayer money was spent on providing a place of safety for children, or
    2. That taxpayer money was spent?

    My point is that the taxpayer money WILL BE SPENT. Why not use it in a way that benefits the people in Eastland?

    We can espouse the lofty goals or ideals that have been stated here in this thread, by EVERYONE in EVERY facet of government refusing to spend money. As I have said, that is a very noble and worthy undertaking, indeed! I don't disagree on that point. But, this is not Utopia. This is the real world, where the money allocated to the PDM grant was going to be spent... period. No two ways about it. The government was going to spend that money for pre-disaster mitigation. Congress not only authorized that expenditure... they made it mandatory that the money be spent for that cause.

    That being the case (regardless of lofty ideals), should Eastland have applied for a portion of the money? How can the answer be anything but a resounding "YES!"?

    We (still) have to abide by the realities of this world, whether we agree with them or not. Yes, I want our government, at all levels, to drastically reduce spending so that we can restore a healthy GDP ratio. But, to make that happen, we have to start at the top, not at the bottom. As long as the Federal government continues to make matching grants available, the lower tier of government will continue to try to get a piece of the pie, which means matching funds from local coffers.

    You, nor I, can realistically expect it to be otherwise. Stop the spending at the top, and out of necessity, spending at the bottom for "luxury items" will be drastically reduced.

  78. #78
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    if you want the government to quit spending money start a revolution

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    I reiterate... "This safe room hasn't cost you one penny more than you would have normally paid in taxes even if we did not get the safe room, so why not build a safe room?"

    Which is the problem:
    1. That taxpayer money was spent on providing a place of safety for children, or
    2. That taxpayer money was spent?

    My point is that the taxpayer money WILL BE SPENT. Why not use it in a way that benefits the people in Eastland?

    We can espouse the lofty goals or ideals that have been stated here in this thread, by EVERYONE in EVERY facet of government refusing to spend money. As I have said, that is a very noble and worthy undertaking, indeed! I don't disagree on that point. But, this is not Utopia. This is the real world, where the money allocated to the PDM grant was going to be spent... period. No two ways about it. The government was going to spend that money for pre-disaster mitigation. Congress not only authorized that expenditure... they made it mandatory that the money be spent for that cause.

    That being the case (regardless of lofty ideals), should Eastland have applied for a portion of the money? How can the answer be anything but a resounding "YES!"?

    We (still) have to abide by the realities of this world, whether we agree with them or not. Yes, I want our government, at all levels, to drastically reduce spending so that we can restore a healthy GDP ratio. But, to make that happen, we have to start at the top, not at the bottom. As long as the Federal government continues to make matching grants available, the lower tier of government will continue to try to get a piece of the pie, which means matching funds from local coffers.

    You, nor I, can realistically expect it to be otherwise. Stop the spending at the top, and out of necessity, spending at the bottom for "luxury items" will be drastically reduced.

    agree with mr cecil if someone was going to get that money no matter what why not eastland and why not what it is for there much rather see a $1.9 million dollars safe room in eastland than a $1.9 million dollar study on the sex life of the pink striped furry tail 3 winged fruit fly in the congo

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    and mr thutmose like i told mr cecil you are about the government spending money

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by homosapian View Post
    ... rather see a $1.9 million dollars safe room in eastland than a $1.9 million dollar study on the sex life of the pink striped furry tail 3 winged fruit fly in the congo
    I didn't realize those were the two choices. Was our school district going to fund 25% of the Congo study?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    I reiterate... "This safe room hasn't cost you one penny more than you would have normally paid in taxes even if we did not get the safe room, so why not build a safe room?"
    The problem is that it's the school district spending local money. It wasn't that long ago that we were warned of dire consequences due to a lack of funding of the school district. We were told we would lose teachers, maintenance workers, and other employees, not to mention increased class sizes.

    Then, suddenly, we have a half million bucks to spend?

    If this is such a "No-Brainer", why is it so newsworthy? Why the media blitz? And why haven't other school districts jumped on the bandwagon to build shelters?

  83. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    The problem is that it's the school district spending local money. It wasn't that long ago that we were warned of dire consequences due to a lack of funding of the school district. We were told we would lose teachers, maintenance workers, and other employees, not to mention increased class sizes.

    Then, suddenly, we have a half million bucks to spend?

    If this is such a "No-Brainer", why is it so newsworthy? Why the media blitz? And why haven't other school districts jumped on the bandwagon to build shelters?
    That is one of the problems. I can think of 17 trillion other problems, but they are not of local concern since that is somebody else's money.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rme View Post
    The problem is that it's the school district spending local money. It wasn't that long ago that we were warned of dire consequences due to a lack of funding of the school district. We were told we would lose teachers, maintenance workers, and other employees, not to mention increased class sizes.

    Then, suddenly, we have a half million bucks to spend?

    If this is such a "No-Brainer", why is it so newsworthy? Why the media blitz? And why haven't other school districts jumped on the bandwagon to build shelters?
    If the school needs a gym what better way could they get one?
    I do know Strawn needs a new school building, they sure could use a grant like this.

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    Did you raise as much objection to the construction of the new baseball complex near Siebert Elementary? How about when they built the ag facility at Eastland Lake? How about when they built the Marshall Gymnasium complex? Or the track field? Or the ...

    Well, you can see where I'm going with this. Our school system is evolving, meeting the needs of our students, constantly growing. If you think that local school district spending will ever stop, you're not being realistic.

    The gymnasium at Siebert... have you ever been in it? It NEEDS to be replaced. If we're going to replace it, why not save some local money by taking advantage of federal grants that are available? They COULD have spent $1.9 million to build the new multi-purpose building, but they didn't. They SAVED us money by doing it this way! Think of it as a federal subsidy, which allows us to buy something at a reduced price.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
    Did you raise as much objection to the construction of the new baseball complex near Siebert Elementary? How about when they built the ag facility at Eastland Lake? How about when they built the Marshall Gymnasium complex? Or the track field? Or the ...
    Good question. Track field and Marshall gym predate me. I've only been here 20 years. Ag Barn I supported right up until the point that the school "sold" it to F & M bank. We were told it was being built by "surplus" funds in the district's budget.

    Normally, major capital expenditures for schools are funded by bond issues. They need to be approved by the voters, so everyone is on board with spending the money. We seem to siphon money intended for education into some sort of slush fund to pay for big stuff that the voters might not approve. There's no way we should have $500,000 to $1,000,000 in "surplus" funds.

    Telling us the Ag barn was built with "surplus" funds and then doing a lease-purchase agreement circumvented our ability to approve or disapprove this investment. For the record, I am very much in favor of vocational classes, and would have voted for the Ag facility. I just resent the fact that it circumvented the rules.

    The ball field was the same story. Built with "surplus" funds, it wasn't subject to taxpayer approval. $1.5 Million for the ball field, with the explanation that it would pay for itself with tournament rentals and increased motel revenues. So, how much has the new ball field netted us? And, is tourism the mission of the school district?

    And now we're being told that the shelter/gym will be built with "surplus" funds. Again. It was 2 years ago that the school district tried to float a TRE that would have increased our taxes, despite the appraisal increases that had just been announced. It was defeated.

    A school district that runs such consistent surpluses doesn't need a tax increase. It either needs to reduce its levy or spend the tax on education and let the voters decide about major capital expenditures.

    And, yes, I've been in the elementary school gym. I don't recall feeling endangered. It seemed like just another gym. What's wrong with it? Would it cost a half million to fix it?
    Last edited by rme; 08-09-2013 at 10:41 PM.

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    Is this part of the same federal grant as the new business park out by Bill's Auto Salvage, or is that one for another million dollars?

  88. #88
    I'm sure that is a different one. As long as everyone has their hand out, it will not get better. From Usapolitics":
    Detroit Council Woman To Obama: “Bring Home The Bacon Because My People Voted For You”

    December 8, 2012byBrn2bfreeDetroit Council Woman To Obama: “Bring Home The Bacon Because My People Voted For You”
    It appears that Barack Obama’s bailout just wasn’t good enough for Detroit. Now they are looking for more handouts from a second Obama term.
    Now video footage has come out that shows Detroit City Council woman JoAnn Watson demanding that Barack Obama “bring home the bacon.” And why is Ms. Watson making such demands? According to her, it’s because “her people” re-elected Obama.


    Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/de...#ixzz2ETSG92xj

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Yo, Mr. Obama, pony up! 'OUR' people voted for you, so you need to bail us out AGAIN!
    What kind of crap is this? Typical liberal behaviour of wanting more and more. They have no shame. This will continue because liberalism doesn't work regardless of how much those idiots try to make things fair.











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